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at this altitude. I can run flat out for a half mile. Before my hands start shaking the millions of living tissue over metal endoskeleton.
Hello boys and girls ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode. A very fun episode of the Tim Ferriss show. This is another edition of the random show with my friend, Kevin Rose who's Kevin Rose, he's a technologist serial entrepreneur world-class investor, self experimenter and all around wild and crazy. Guy can find him at Kevin rose on Twitter, I'll keep it short at that. Please enjoy.
Here's Kevin, cheers. Good to see you clink. Clink. So where are we and what are we drinking? Are you supposed to say, welcome to the show and shit you already hammered, not already hammering. I just feel like in my current state of mind and Affairs of skipping the Preamble, skipping all the foreplay going straight in.
You know, if my Audits and see if my audience
has been with me for 700 of these, I'm like, you know, as appropriate limbered up by now it's Lindbergh burn up.
Of it. Yeah. Welcome to the gym fair, share everybody. This is a special edition random show. Been a few months, at least, you know, it's good to see you. We're actually next to each other. I know if you're watching the video we are sitting next to each other on my floor which is is crazy. Yeah, this is old school. I like it. Yeah. In front of a recording couch. Does my audio sound weird to you? Listen to this? It sounds weird. Yeah. Test 1. 2 3. Hello. Hello. How's it going? This I'm weird.
Watch. Hey, talk talk, talk, talk, talk. Doc, doc, doc doc. Doc you sound good right? Doesn't sound weird? You don't you don't sound weird. Okay actually yeah you know when I get close your pretty close. Yeah.
If I talk right now, I'm getting huge gain, blow back on my voice, but not yours. Oh interesting. So maybe it's just a headphone thing. Yeah.
Sorry people are going to leave all that in half. So we are actually in my new apartment in Los Angeles. We're sitting on the floor in front of a little table here. Yeah, I mean all I know I moved. Why did you move to LA?
I know a lot of things going on, I guess since covid everybody from La has moved to Austin, is that true in a lot of? A lot of people moved. I know a lot of people moved to Austin, you know, it was one of those things where I was in Portland. Oregon for a few years. Loved it, beautiful, beautiful place, rains a lot. Not a lot of friends. And so it was hard because we're in the middle of nowhere, and it's actually just kind of depressing rain and no friends with covid combined. Now, when you moved there, I have to say, I was like, who does Kevin know in that area? Yeah, I knew a couple people.
'Well, and one of them moved and I had a couple of their friends and then one of them had a baby and, you know, with Governor thing you'd like, you don't get a new baby and all that stuff. So right. It was tough, but my family was out there. My mom was out there. You know, my sister still out there and just decided hey let's get away from them. No, I honestly with all the end of T stuff going on and the majority of my calls were either LA or New York. There was having work-wise. Yeah, and so, why not get down to where everything is happening.
The choice, we weren't going to go to New York because it's just wintertime New York. You've already done New York. Also, and I have two kids, and it's like, New York's harder with kids. Yeah. So, la, why is New York harder with kids? I mean, when the snow is like Ice-T gonna Winters the winters and, you know, there's also traffic like I remember when I was out in New
York and I was watching, I'm just laughing, because I just spent three hours in traffic driving from
San Diego to
Los Angeles. There's, it's you fucking
terrible. There's a difference between like la
Top and go freeway traffic and like you're watching these kids and I saw this happen where they make them all hold hands. When they're crossing the street of course and then like a taxi comes flying around you know at a million miles an hour and almost like wipes out a I'm just I just kind of freaked out. Yeah. When we have the dad hat on with the kids, I'm like I don't want to have to worry about this stuff right? Got it. And so this is and I know there's more neighborhoody stuff and there's there's areas of New York where we definitely could have made it work but I don't know. West Coast. I'm
My mom, you know, she's up there. She's in her 80s. She's undergoing Cancer Treatments. I want to be on this Coast, I could bounce up in a second, if I need to. So, you know, made sense that make sense. Yeah. All right. So sitting on the floor with a beverage in hand, that's a great question because this is something of yours. I am keeping it simple and having some tequila missing a little bit of Texas. Perhaps those artists 100% Agave Blanco I wanted something that would
Maybe be less likely to donkey, punch me in the head hangover wise and so I chose this as much for the Blanco and as for the bottle itself, I mean the actual ceramic container is gorgeous. This is one of our favorite Tequila's. I gotta say a big thank you to a niche who introduced me to this tequila. Bought me a bottle of this as I can birthday gift or something. It just blew my mind, so really good, not crazy expensive.
Middle of the road, kind of world, but just awesome to. Yeah, I have no idea. Just for the bottle alone. I'm imagining this cost a fair amount to make just true for a lot of the premium alcohols. Like you're paying 20% of the price or 30% of the price for the glass or the crystal or whatever. You're actually not keeping most likely, what are you drinking? I am having a little bit of champagne just because my wife bought a bottle and we opened it. I'm looking early do champagne, it's not douchey.
But it's
like it's kind of a sit on your
podcast. You can do whatever you want. Okay. So it's um, this is the funny thing. Dari came back from the champagne store, which grocery store? She was like, I saved $300 and I'm like, cool. What? You get we don't ever drink this champagne but there was apparently a sale on something called Ace of Spades, which is Jay-Z champagne. It's
actually quite good, it's actually quite good because laughing because as soon as you mentioned that
before we were recording and I was thinking
You also have a red wine with Snoop Dogg's face on
it. That's your sink like it's
Tupac.
You know. Grass-fed butter wants to know we're
coming so they're not too far away from us is a grocery store that basically has Snoop Dogg's wine and it's like kind of like a table wine and Daria needs it for cooking. So she bought some dogs it was like a success like well I think ten dollar bottle of wine don't judge the cost of Snoop Dogg's
table and I just thought I thought
they were going to be there was going to be mortal.
That patterns it basically. And how is it? Hmm, it's quite good. Very dry. Fantastic. So cheers. Good to see you, man. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've done one of these in person. I know it reminds me of the old school episodes that we used to do these all the time in San Francisco. Yeah. And even with the glass background, it makes me think of one of your places in San Francisco. Totally, we're all those people showed up angry. Well the protesters the protesters. Yeah that place that that particular because he protested yet. I have not
Road tested yet. It's interesting you. Well I think that's going to happen, actually, with your iron thing you're working on. Oh God, I'm
not sure people's imaginations really go
wild with what horrible thing, I'm concocting but I have not been protested. I'll take the Counterpoint and this is, I don't want to give him credit because I don't know if he would want it, but friend of mine who has this Theory and I tend to agree with it, that people are going to be.
Ten percent less famous every year. If they're already a public figure, if they're not in Rapid Ascension, if they're not exploding. And even if they are, if we go over a longer time frame and it's one thing to be popular and Tick-Tock for a month, you're on the clock, right? I'm not. It's quite a different thing to be popular for like ten years on 20 years. Yeah. And I just think that is going to become harder and harder to do it because they'll be more of a pool of people. That'll be. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean the Internet is just, I mean, just the young kids coming.
Up on you. Yeah, and I'm okay with it. I'm tired. Are you done? I think I'm like that. NHL
player like oh wow, yeah no God giving them any injuries. He's had he's doing pretty well out there. Limping along on the
ice. Yeah, but let me let me see. The
Les Amis, giving it a good college. Try having a baby that has appeared to get looks. I have a serious question, asked you
here?
Tell me that was a really intense
sip on the microphone is
like
that's why I don't wear a headset. I don't worry about is very
intense. So um, you don't want to go for Rogan. You want take him out like
you could you could you could go
for it. No, he's one easy 10 for sure, he's one. Yeah. It doesn't even enter my mind. On really does not even if you have to have like a live studio and shit cousin because a lot of it has to do with that like life.
I mean, he's at, he's a television
professional when he's very good. Interviewer. He's very good commentator. He's very comfortable in front of a camera and is an excellent Storyteller. Yes. He's got to be five to ten times bigger than his runner-up. In terms, Runner eyes for interview format podcast, you got to be up there while my other. I mean, I'm up there. But you have to understand that there's Rogan and then there's if it were the Tour de France
They'll be like one guy, ten miles ahead. Yeah, and then there'd be a pack of like the guy on roids. And there
before you say, no, I don't mean, he's always. I mean, like, in terms of his like, how far he
has I think. Yes. I mean, it's as if you then have a cohort of folks there, like, four or five, maybe real, like, spread out over 200 yards and so there is maybe a popularity sequence to it. But there are ten miles behind, yeah, person and in first place. So I don't even I don't
Think about competing at all. In
that sense. The other thing though to is like I feel like his
content. He's really good at getting the spicy shit on, right? I can't holy have the spicy guest on, he knows how to push the buttons and I feel like you have, you have like fantastic intellectual conversations but I don't know that you push the agenda of like normal celebrity for the sake of like, no turn up the pot a bit, you know. Yeah. No I don't, I don't have the endurance for it and he really enjoys
So many different formats. He he is Joe Rogan. Meaning drogon is the best version of Joe Rogan. And I think anyone who looks at what Joe does and says I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that better and I'm going to be bigger is foolish. I think that's a terrible idea. Yeah no shit and Joe has tremendous endurance. I think in part because he has chosen formats and ways of communicating
And ways of presenting visually that it seems he really enjoys. Yeah. So if somebody tries to force fit themselves into that game, oh yeah, they're gonna lose. Yeah. You both had Zuckerberg on the show. Yep. You maybe three months before him four months, something like that behind the scenes. How much prepping do they give you of? Like, don't ask Mark this like what's that? Like they meaning his team?
Were extremely easy to deal with for me? Did they say like this questions off-limits? Like don't ask Mark not his, they didn't, I gave them as I give every guest Final Cut. So there wasn't a lot of talk about prohibited topics or anything like that. And did you go easy on him? I would say, I went easy. There's something that people should know if they don't already about the show and deliberate decisions that
I make so that I enjoy the format and the same way that I think Joe does it with him as his format and anyone who has I think tremendous in podcast years longevity which would be at least five or ten finds the format they're best at. It's just like different shaped athletes and different sports. Yeah and in the case of my podcast, I made the decision really early on I don't want to have a got your show. There are many other
People who are going to do that better than I will because they enjoy it. I don't, for example, as much as I respect, Mike Wallace, I don't need to be Mike Wallace. Mike Wallace already won the Mike Wallace game. If you have not heard that name, he should actually look at my pictures, a very skilled, interviewers a documentary about him. That is fantastic and has chilling footage of him. And the entire story behind interviewing the Ayatollah, Khomeini in any case,
It's not hard ball. It's not any of these formats and in part that this is going to sound so cheesy and Hallmark card. But I hated going into interviews myself because you've been interviewed a ton, I've been interviewed, hundreds or thousands of times at this point and when you go in and someone just cut an angle and is out to get some type of headline that they're going to cherry-pick,
From a longer statement, you make and twist it out of context. I just didn't want anything to do with that. I wanted my show to be the show, not because it's easy necessarily, but because it's well-researched and thoughtful and not out to be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive, for, all of those reasons and more. There were certain topics that I didn't bring up, and in part that is because if it is a topic, let's just say, I were to ask Zuckerberg something, like, what is your?
On a b and c or what? How do you personally think about Russia? Ukraine? This that and the other thing when that is a clear and present high priority area Focus within meta Facebook itself, he's not going to have any maneuvering ability did. I mean he's going to feel as he should compelled to give whatever response they have jointly know. There's research that should be the right response. And so for me,
Me to throw that out. It's a waste of everyone's time and oxygen. Because number one, we're not going to get and I wouldn't expect nor would I even recommend that he gives something new in my podcast, isn't live again for for many reasons. But I think I know which trees are worth barking up, and which are not. I think I'm very good at picking them shots. And if people want, let's just say a politically oriented show or a controversy Focus show or true crime or something. There are tens of thousands of
Brand new ones that come out every week. You can find something you enjoy for me. I wanted a lot of interviews, they with Mark, which I was quite happy with.
Will remain Evergreen for a very long time so talking about how he structures his life thinks about priorities how he integrates say belief systems like religion into his family. I mean these are all questions. That may not be the topic of the week, but that nonetheless, I think will preserve value. Maybe even appreciate in value over time as more and more people chase. Yeah, whatever happens to be trending. That instant, that's a great Point tick.
Yeah well whatever the platform is remember Vine. I'm in, yeah, Risky Business, betting on one platform. When I interviewed Ilan, probably 10 years or so ago. I did the same type of approach where it was very like, let's get into who you are as a person versus the topic of the day and if you go back and watch that interview today, there's still some great Evergreen pieces of content that are like lessons from just his childhood growing up, like things that lessons that he learned along the way, the idea of taking things back to First principles. Like,
Like the all that stuff was pretty new when he talked about it back then. Yeah, I'm still really proud of that interview that it still gets a lot of views and people should turn ads on that shit.
I don't have any cash on the side, you know, I was going to say Kevin, you know, I saw
you the holes in your
socks. Yeah. Just as you know, that's breaking down all the hand-me-downs that you're wearing, concern times are tough in the Rose
asshole. So tough, what do you think I should do the podcast?
Honestly, yeah, because I love you. I want you to move to
Los Angeles and have a live show because I think the live show
would be. Here's the question. Like I guess what I was trying to hint out with the Joe Rogan pieces that I believe when I watch Duck on his show and I watch a lot of people, Aaron Rodgers and a few people have launched recently. The reason why he can get them to share intimate details is because of that, I mean Aaron Rodgers is sitting there smoking a cigar on his set, right?
And they're just kind of chilling out like having fun. It's the Elan moment with the weed cigarette, you know, all that shit. But like that magic can happen remote, you know. Yeah, it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder so I don't know if you're gonna go for it, like, I'd love for you to move to a lady. But that's just me personally to haven't warned, you have you more my Orbit and hanging out more often. Now, you know, I thought about doing a limited edition live series, I was actually looking at it right before covid, hit. Well, you did that series at the other
television show
Fearless, and I enjoyed that and I would do it again and there is a magic.
A connection also an audio visual component if you want to show photographs or video, sure, that is very hard if not impossible to replicate the okay. So just like having I think having an audience is a lot of fun. Well, think about what Oprah did like being an athlete and having to compete. It's going from training to competing. Yeah. And since I don't do live very often, I get a cheap thrill out of it. Yeah. But were you saying about Oprah? I was just saying that she was able to break down. I mean a lot of the intimate stuff that came.
Out was because they were sitting across from each other, right? You felt like you were just with her during that moment. Why don't you do six months out of the year out here?
A little studio will see series. It could be cool. Usually be one month. No, but it is okay, that that tax. Yes. Can I just say,
I think it's so funny to talk to all the people moving to Austin, or I should say, all the people. I don't talk to all the people. When I talk to people and you're in some mixed company and they're all these tax refugees from California,
You're
like so guys? Yeah. How did you decide on Austin? They're like, oh man, they're all the barbecue and flowers and, you know, I really like armadillos and oh, I just thought, wow, I really need to invest in a customized, AI driven
Tech enabled, cowboy boot
business, that's what I thought. And I ask myself, where is the best such business? Oh, it's in Austin.
So blah, blah, blah, blah blah, and they dance around the deck. They will say,
they won't say it, they won't say it. So I one of
my
Stupid kind of old Muppet like up in the balcony like you're not funny like yelling at the other Kinder. Muppets is I'll see like how long I can push until they say it's
for the taxi. Yeah. Just I'll see a link just to how many
contortionist Cirque du Soleil acts. They can watch their - well, yeah. They're gonna go through before they finally get. Yay, and I'm India, whatever you like, my company is going public. Six months later and yeah, that'd be a good idea. At least know, a dozen
People that have moved to Texas just for the taxes for sure. I moved in 2017 and I wanted to move there right after college, but the fact of the matter is, I moved to Austin because I wanted to leave a scene also. I mean there are tons of reasons, but I remember you were in an SF, right?
Yeah, and I was kind of getting burnt out with the shit. I
was done for a couple of years before I left, then I got there and then covid happened and what I thought was going to take like five to eight years happened in 18 months and now Austin is a scene.
And it's
right. Fuck, because I'm more time. I thought I'd talk
to you and I don't know if you want to keep this in or not, but they, there's once a year like you move to Austin, kind of hoping to kind of like get away from that shit. Yeah. And then you're going to coffee shops.
People are too much like, recognizing you and just being the girl like, fuck. I just wanna come. Yeah, you know, and it's
But your hearing test conversations over coffee. Heck. It's the tech stuff. Yeah. Because if somebody listens to the podcast and they say hi honestly, there are days when I need it. Like it feels good but I'll paint a picture. If I'm this like actually happened to me something very similar to this. If however I like spot a guy in a man bun who has more tattoos than like a Brazilian MMA fighter has been to prison and has like an Ayahuasca t-shirt on and is wearing like a bit coin bracelet.
And comes over to me and he's like, yo, bro. Yeah, well, I used to listen your stuff but more of a Lex favorite.
Yeah, Friedman is actually a great podcast, but somebody says to me and I'm like,
what is this interaction about? Like this is such a bizarre interaction that like archetype, which is at the Nexus of a bunch of circles including something called conspiracy reality. Whoever came up with that high five, one of the best words ever but this like conspirators reality that seems to
Have taken as its HQ Austin. You started this drives me cuckoo bananas I did not start the company Berger a Latino, but you were on the first people I heard talking about Ayahuasca and shit. Well yeah that's true. And then as soon as something is popular enough that people are doing it because it's popular than I'm like I want to just exit stage left. Yeah I saw this piece in the New York Post about socialites using Ayahuasca to do. God knows what and it's just the same status.
Shit, the cars, the good, the goodies that you show to your friends, like all the status stuff. That drives me completely nuts. And look, I'm sure I play some of those games myself because we're human and we all play some of those games. I don't know that you do like, I know you. Well, I've never seen you drive a crazy car. No, you always have shitty cars. Yeah. Yes, I do. It's true. It's true. And yeah, I don't in that way. I don't plan. Yeah, of those games are trying on your houses.
I've always been very reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. They're modest you know you have a private jet but that's yeah, you know aside from my
fleet of golf, golf golf course is very
reasonable. So
as soon as especially with the Psychedelic stuff, God it makes me like a so sad on some level that
The fucking monkeys can't help but like soil, their own home over and over again. It's just like, oh guys, come on, like this one thing. Can we not turn this into like a kicking it with the Kardashians? Keeping up with whoever the hell is
Your next-door neighbor and because like my instead of this sort of sideways glance, making sure that someone has noticed your hot new, like Bugatti. Now it's like, oh, oh well, you had a good Shaman experience. Let me tell you about my Shaman and it's like,
it's the
same jerking off.
It's the same
stupid game and I still have never done the actual
Last guy, got that one time with you. I'd love to. Yeah, we can talk about it. We can talk about. I mean, I know you'd give me the authentic shit. I don't want that like, bullshit. I want to go. If I'm gonna go do what's going
on? I'm just gonna be like, hold on. Let me hop on Craigslist. Find somebody good. Okay, second casual encounters. Is that make sense? I don't know how their advertising these days.
I will say just as a quick note with I was go specifically I talk so many more people out of using. Well this is broadly speaking.
Out of using psychedelics, then I have ever talked into using psychedelics. I think that's something that a lot of folks. Listening may not realize that I'm mostly disqualify or discourage people from doing Ayahuasca or any psychedelic. It, it just depends a lot on the specifics for me because these things are so strong and they can be, they destabilize incredibly destabilizing I've been there. And after I did that high dose,
Very amazing experience and definitely therapy. Like, I should totally. They tell you all compressed and this little thing, but for two or three days after I was just kind of like whoo emotions are all over the place, you know. It's like it's not just smooth sailing from the second you get done. You know the chemicals are got two rebounds and shit. Yeah. And you're increasing plasticity. So if you take if you just imagine
the like this huge
let's just say Let Me Be Nice.
Huge like volleyball sized ball of Play-Doh and you have to heat it to be able to shape it and that's your brain. And then you heat it and depending on all the inputs and stimuli positive and negative that enter your life or that you allow to enter your life over the subsequent handful of days or even weeks.
Will shape how that dries and then it's not automatically for the better so long ways of saying definitely do your homework. This stuff has become so popular and I'm excited about the therapeutic potential. I'm excited about the potential for examining in ways that have been effectively impossible before. For a lot of technological reasons we will begin to ask and answer questions about the mind and Consciousness itself.
That we have not even been able to scratch the surface of even, 20 years ago, I think Psychiatry is going to fundamentally change. And a lot of really core ways, right? My fundamental core kind of redundant but you get the idea that that some of the tectonic plates under which Psychiatry rests currently are going to shift very dramatically and I'm excited about that. And yeah speaking of which you kind of we haven't even hit any more topics that were talking about today. Let me ask you before we move on. Yeah like what was it was a gonna be in line with that but it yeah, yeah, we'll get there all together. Now that you gave me
1/4 of a drink. Yeah, come on. I love it. I'm on a roll. I may or may not have had some other chocolates. That's
right before we got started, I did not have that but
in any case, I die Wasco chuckling well, you know, guys getting that would be the most.
The fact that be like
cat shit sandwich is like, the flavor really comes to mind? All right, why would you want to do say Ayahuasca, what would the whole be potentially? Well, I mean, for me, I have had a few
Few experiences on psychedelics that every drug that you take is a little bit different, right? Like you have a different door, open like high dose weed is going to feel very different than high dose mushrooms because it feels very different than micro Dost acid which I'm just talking about the things that I've tried. So I imagine there's another door to open their booth and ketamine different door ketamine, very different. I've done. I've done ketamine before in a therapeutic setting and it was it was it was actually the most Pleasant like chill thing I've ever done like.
It's like just chill Lena watch out for the long-term brain damage if you guys never do it. Well we'll get into that in another episode. Yeah so for me I'm trying to figure out and this is on to my first point about my my seven day Retreat that I'm going to do as a good head fake. Did you answer my
question? No no. What I'm saying is that I want to, I
want to open as many doors as possible during this lifetime. Why not, you know, okay, all right. Hey, it's not to say, I'm going to go in and stick to one door and be down that path for the next you know, six months.
Yes. But why not? Just try it like I'm going to be dead in 40 years. Sure. It's despite all the people.
Yeah skipping lunch and dinner in terms of cleaning out, an extra three
years so you were going to segue opening doors. Yeah. So and the problem Tim, I I have with a lot of these compounds is that I feel like they're very prescriptive. And I worry that you get these changes. Don't get me wrong and granted. I don't have near as much. I don't have as much data as you do on this, on this front. But for me, I feel
Dislike nice relief for like a month, you know and then it kind of creeps back into the normal steady state of rival things, right? And so the plasticity I wonder is it like something that you have to do multiple times and like how many times? And then then on the worst case of this, you hear about these people that they just don't ever come back and they're the lifelong journey ores that are they these Psychonauts that and you're like, are you killing more brain cells? Are you really reworking? The plastic there? You just kind of like, you know? Yeah. All right.
You took that Play-Doh and just like, just threw it down,
the Sand, Dune. Exactly. So, for me, I've been,
you know, I've, we mentioned this many times on the show is like, I love the meditation side of things, I think if it is a kind of a trying to reach the same Peak, but in a more kind of steady state, like, everyday micro dose way that eventually over a decade or longer of practice. You'll eventually get to some amazing State of Consciousness. I'm obviously not there yet, but I'm doing my first seven day silent retreat.
Mountain Cloud Zen Center which I'm very excited. That's a nice place. Henry's Place. Yeah, Henry Stickmin. Yeah, nice, fantastic teacher. So why do the surgery? What are you hoping to gain from it? Well, if you read, a lot of the Xin books that are out there a lot of the, whether it be the three pillars of Zen or is then the authentic gate. A lot of the big unlocks that happen with meditation are not just through 50 minutes a day, which is then, is typically 25 minutes of seated meditation. Five minutes of walking in the
Then another 25 minutes of seated. It actually happens at these sessions of these like proper Retreats, you know where you're doing days, meditating. And you really go deep. It allows your mind to really calm, and you've done this, you better. So I just want to go, I want to see where what's their like in this Spirit of unlocking, these other doors and trying new things, like hell. Yeah. Like let's go, let's go. You know,
lfg Zen
All right. Are you concerned at all? Do you have any worries iron? He's gonna be, I'm gonna be sitting a lot. I'm gonna be bringing my seated. I use a kind of Japanese style seated bench for meditation versus the folded legs sky, like a sybian. It's got a little bit adapter on it. Yeah, exactly. So I'm going to go and do that. Touch of magic wand
keeps the hips loose. Yeah,
exactly. I love, you know what you're saying? Yeah, that's great. I'm used to sitting for for an hour a day like that. So
that's not a I don't know. You're going to be going from. I know our to how many hours of fine like, like it's gonna be like 8 or
what's she supposed to lose feeling in your legs and your father have fine. I'm really like I'm at all bacteria. Yeah, I'm all in. I just want to do this if you have a very
nice man. Yeah I do like Henry Henry is amazing for those of you don't know just a plug for Henry through via Sam Henry has a lot of his courses on the waking up app from Sam Harris. So you can, you can check his stuff out there. Fantastic zen teacher, just a good human, you know? Yeah.
Great guy. Very well spoken. During the podcast twice. He's been on twice so for people who want to taste test of dr. Shipman, he give you your second interview with him around the cons was just brilliant, dude. So good as fun. Yeah. Yeah, because that was part of the intention for the first episode, as, you know, yeah. Then we got hooked on all these other topics and didn't come back to it. And I was like, all right, we need to take her out to a cool. Yeah, I love that.
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So anything you've enjoyed watching recently? Yes I was going to get into some of the I figure we could do because it's been a while since we've hung out the and I'm sure you know with covid never thing else. Would they have hit some good movies? I was going to give you like my favor. I have all the Search terms five
bullet movie list because I know you love five bullets. Actually have five bullets right here.
Bullets heal of those bullets. I do have a my five bullet movie list and you tell me yes or no. What do you like these? You, whether you've seen them. Oh great. Yeah.
Do
the same for me. You got five. I do not have 51. All right,
but let's get that good job,
but it has six episodes Titanic. Technically, I think I have sex, and you, okay. Okay, let's explore Friday. All right, so the new Top Gun fucking great. Fantastic. Can you believe that he did, all that finds himself? Well, I mean, the the fact that he is still doing so many of his own stunts, it's the same incredible and it's Sky. See want to pick up Scientology.
You know, you're in the right place. Yeah, exactly. The real reason. The Kevin
McHale a that is not the
case. I thought Maverick was fantastic. Saw in IMAX, I hadn't seen anything on IMAX a long time and I was like, all right like we're gonna do it. Let's actually do it. I really went into it being like Jesus. I hope they don't run this, you know like another top guys is going to be cheesy and I walked away being like damn, that was good. It was really good as fantastic. And there have been also a lot of filmmakers who have enjoyed it not that that's my
Cater. I just thought it'd be fun to go. See old-school, all the tropes. Yeah. Like use all the cliches because they work music.
Yeah,
absolutely. So good, just, you know exactly what you're signing up for. Yeah, and like, having something that reliable and uplifting is really reassuring in a world of increasingly chaotic uncertainty. It's like, yeah. You know, when you go to see fucking Maverick, it's not going to end with
He's like an orphan kid dying. I know that that's not the ending. All right. So the next next movie, the price of everything we've seen that the price of everything. This is an art doc. Yes. Yes. I said a long time. Yeah. I saw it quite a few years ago. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. Okay. Why don't you? You've seen it much more recently.
The yeah, yeah, I mean, it's basically
just gives you if you're ever curious kind of behind the scenes of the Contemporary Art world, what goes on at auction how these artists make their art, they actually, which is crazy. That actually
You're like people to do the art for some of them do? Yeah, some of them do. It's just a crazy behind-the-scenes view of the art world and for someone that's in 2nf tease, it was just like I learned a lot,
so I'm is 0. It is a
wild romp through Contemporary Art. And if you're in the camp of, let's just say, Advocate, right? You really enjoy Contemporary Art, you'll get a lot out of it. And also if you think that much of Contemporary Art is complete horseshit, you will also get a lot out of it because neither
Camp is going to be disappointed. Yeah. Hey love. Can I have a little slippers of something you find? Thank you. Not a beer. Just like anyone or anything. So, the price of our, the next one, Elvis Elvis film, like that. There we go. Bam, because I bling. So, the new Elvis film. So, here's the deal. I don't care about Elvis who cares about Elvis, right? Like, I don't think no seriously. I was like Elvis old people, blah blah. You watch Elvis this new movie? Why did you go do it, Tony Conrad?
Tell me, it was a fantastic. Alright. And so I put it on and I was blown away because Elvis was a misfit like he grew up in a black neighborhood, that's how you got. A lot of that kind of Soul Vibe, like the heat, they came through his music and then also he was like thrown in jail because of the way he moved his hips
and shit like that. These are the times back there, right?
And so, like he got on stage when like just like make his finger move and stuff to like get the
crowd going on shit because I couldn't move his hips. The why is he throwing up?
Jail. It's a brilliant story. This shows how I got hooked on drugs and whenever I thought of Elvis, I thought this like Vegas singer, overweight passed away. Oh, I don't know much. But I learned a lot in a, he reminds me of just any other icon. I
can see why you so
massive. I like it was like a history lesson in the movie, so I highly recommend it. Yeah. I'll check it out. Yeah, it looked like the cinematography is beautiful. Just based on the preview, fantastic. Yeah, I was not expecting to love an Elvis movie. That is not me.
But I walked away being like he was a badass a lot cooler than I thought. So I get up. Yeah, next one, everything everywhere all at once. Yes. So good. It was great. I'll give you a bit of trivia, maybe if you have not heard this already, I was watching it and Michelle, yoos husband from within 30 seconds. I was like I know that guy Goonies. Yes. Exactly. I was like data from The Goonies within like 30 seconds.
I'm just so glad that that guy got
what's going on. Yeah, I mean you could have ended up in a million different
places in the fact that he's I'm sure he's maybe this is good to Maybin and maybe many other films. But to end up in this is such a nice a sleeper hip like unexpected, I would imagine mega-hit so I made Dario watch it and she was just like, what the hell am I
watching? It's of weird-ass.
It's a super bizarre, but if you like really weird shit and you're just like your jam is kind of
Like funky in DIA, odd like it. You walk away being like what the hell did I just watch but it's brilliant. It's brilliant. At the end of the day. I really did jumping for the dildo.
Scene was just out there trying to race. Oh, oh yes. Yes, my scene. Yeah, and the MB.
Exactly. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot to, this is strange movie. So my last one on list of ones I watch recently, that was for here's number five airplane, the original airplane, if you
Watch not recently. No, and it would never get made today, which is probably part of what makes it funny. It's cringe like bad, like really sexist and there's a whole lot of jokes in there that you look at your, like how the hell do they make this? But it's also like there's so many iconic moments and B that when you watch it yeah I heard you spit and Beverly faster. It's just it's fantastic to watch again everyone. Yeah. Oldie some alright. Alright what's your number? What's your
Movie, The you have to recommend, I'll share an oldie. It's not as old as airplane, but if people have not seen a recently re-watched, it Spirited Away. Hmm. By Studio Ghibli, which the time was headed up by Miyazaki? Hi y'all.
My favorite movie of all time,
really? Why?
Yeah, it just watch it. I'm like this good. You know. It just has all the ingredients. I think I also watched it when I was 15 or 16, so
him, I told you it might have been a few years later
but the coming of age and hero's journey of Chihiro who then gets renamed sin and it all story and sequence behind that.
The fact that she goes from so weak to, so, self-confident and strong. The way that is woven in to a fantasy backdrop, including so many of my favorite things, right? I mean, there's like, Japanese Bath House bunch of weird. God's you know, a bunch of creepy like ghosts, type Phantasm. Yeah. Like calling us here or no face as one of the characters and I thought the animation and the backgrounds and everything when you consider.
Particularly that they're hand-painted, was spectacular and is spectacular. So I've re-watched that I'm also very interested. Now in world-building I'm doing a bunch of fiction writing right now to tell us more about that. Yeah yeah we'll get into that. And are you going to talk about that today or nah? Nah, I'll save it, I'll save it. But I will say I'm bouncing around a little bit so Spirited Away and then recently read a classic I think was published in 1968 initially called The Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le
Gwen and it's incredible. It's such a beautifully crafted book. A language is really not flowery, but poetic sometimes in a very simplistic way. That is to say even very basic senses, she'll make beautiful. And without the wizard of Earthsea Harry Potter doesn't exist, or at least Wizarding schools, as we've come to think about them.
There are so many components of fantasy worlds that we take for granted now that would not have existed were at four.
The wizard of her seat and then prior to that. I also listen to me. I know I'm jumping around a bit. The Fellowship of the Ring for the first time, so I did not read. Lord of the Rings. I had not read any j.r.r. Tolkien and when you consume those two books, especially Tolkien stuff you realize, how many of the archetypes that we just assume have been around forever because they're so ubiquitous came out of this guy's head. One question there. Did you see the
New Amazon series, the new Amazon series. Oh, Lord. Louis, I can't remember the name of it. I've seen the trailer pop up because they're promoting the hell out of. I spent a billion dollars in the series. So, crazy guy have emotions went nuts. I haven't watched it yet, but I will cool. And as far as my other item, my one item, I'll mention it. I mentioned it to Daria earlier because I think it's so spectacular. It's a limited series or a six.
I want to say animated series although it combines 3D and 2D animation and a really Innovative spectacular way is Arcane which heard me mention earlier as well and Arcane is based on a game. I have never played but many people do League of Legends or it's based on some characters from this game and Riot games. And there's a separate behind the scene series which is the making of Arcane called, Bridging the rift. Which I'm also watching
she, and
They just threw everything at this and the animation studio in France for tshh that helped to create, the not just the visual component. There's a lot to it and the musical is this dream opposition behind it is on Netflix. Oh cool. And every frame of this series could be a beautiful large nft or piece of artwork that you would put on a wall. I love that. I mean it is
staggeringly detailed and gorgeous. So I'm just recommending to everybody I think and they spent nine figures on it. I don't know if it's 100 million two hundred or more but the fact that they were willing to dedicate after a lot of testing it wasn't haphazard but willing to dedicate that type of resources to a six-part animated series man. It's it's really gorgeous and it also shows a contemporary example of world-building.
No, there is World building. There is World building in League of Legends because I've learned more about the game even though I haven't played it when you're creating.
Six hours of content on a handful of characters, you have to flesh them out and create narrative arcs that intertwine in a way that you just don't necessarily have to and video again. So, highest recommendation, can I pick your brain a little bit here, or just maybe get you to divulge a little bit. Here, you mentioned now a couple times about doing a little bit of writing in this genre. You're not doing a book. No, but you're doing something I think now is the time to start kind of teasing.
A little bit. Can you just tell us what? What is Tim working on these days? I can you'll have to come a lot of detail but can you can
you give us a little bit of like I'm
flushing out of doing this or maybe pushing here? Kenny, here's what I'll say. I'll say that not going to divulge too much but I will say that I've been experimenting with fiction for about
A year and a half two years. Well, you did the nft with laws which is great to bring it up. So my first nft experiment thanks to your encouragement. Was a short fiction piece called if you want to start a war. And I really enjoyed the process of putting that together and specifically the writing process of playing with fiction. And in that particular case, it was very strongly based.
On real events, it's fiction but a lot of it was based on real people and real events which makes it even spookier if people want to check that out. And we did that through Grails, which was great. And I'm continuing to work those muscles. After a lot of conversations with people, like Steven pressfield and others who have been very encouraging.
I may have some stuff to show and the next few months. Cool, I'll put it that way, but it has been a great excuse to read and watch a lot of fiction sci-fi, and, and fantasy primarily and have learned so much of ended up going really deep. So with Ursula K. Le Guin. For instance, who was a huge influence on Neil Gaiman.
Who is writing I've Loved for a very long time including books that I've recommended probably on previous random shows many years ago like the graveyard book which is just fantastic. If people only read nonfiction and you want to easy gateway drug, try that out. The audio book by Neil Gaiman is fantastic, in any case. So I'm working as I'm thinking about fiction through these influences and lineages right? So I'm looking at Neil Gaiman like all
Sorts of aspects of his process and writing and then I hear him talking about Ursula K. Le Guin. Then I go on Twitter and as people if I'm only going to read one of her books, which one should I read get a whole host of answers? Start with the wizard of Earthsea that leads me somewhere else, then I watch a PBS documentary on her life and then learn about a b and c and just following the breadcrumbs. Yeah, of my curiosity and that way it has so Tim. I've seen you in a while. I've seen me like this of a handful
times. Yeah, I've seen you write a handful of books now. We've been friends that long. Yeah and I've seen when you go down rabbit, holes and eye. I see this, I see this and I recognized it and it means you're up to something big.
I'll do is I'll yeah, I really does. Yeah. And you look happy.
When you have a fabulous, you looks like you're having a good time. I'm going to get some that makes me happy. Yeah. Thanks man. Yeah, I'm excited. And it's I feel like I'm Awakening
Muscles or creative processes that have been dormant for a long time. It feels like this is potentially a new way for you to flex your creativity in a different and something that you've been, it sounds like, is it something? You've had a passion for for a very long time and now is the first time you're like, okay, I'm going to go for it here. Yeah, totally and it it brings back so many and there's a value here, right? It's not just simple. Nostalgia, there are a brings
Back so many emotional imprints that were powerful and positive, when I was a kid and especially given some of the darker stuff that I've talked about in my childhood, it's easy for my psyche to weigh the negative.
more heavily right away, the dark stuff, more heavily, but by say going then into
Some of these corners of the fiction world, it's brought me back to, for instance, right now, I'm rereading The Neverending Story by Michael ende. I mean, which was my favorite book as a kid. And I remember I used to get in trouble. I would pull pranks and stuff and get sent to detention and detention in elementary school, was in a few places, I always tried to dodge the nurse's office because so boring. I want to get sent to the library and then I would get sent the library and I
Started reading The Neverending Story, and I fell. So in love with it, that I took it out of its spot and I hid it in a different corner of the library so that nobody else would take it out. So I wouldn't get interrupted and then I would get into detention again and I would know exactly where it was hidden. So I could go back and continue reading and everything story and I don't even ever had this experience. Maybe you some people might have this experience. If for instance, they saw Aladdin as a kid and then they go and watch them as an adult and they're like, oh my God, Robin Williams.
Add a lot of humor for adult and I didn't notice it as a kid. Hmm. Similarly, with a lot of these fiction books, like you read the wizard of Earthsea or you read Neverending Story. There is a lot of deep philosophical discussion and a lot of insight and you might even say truth.
That is really applicable, maybe even more. So to adults who can grok that piece of it. Don't you love that when you re read something a little bit later and it just hits you in a completely different way. Yeah, totally. It's the best. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. So I'm lit up. Yeah, I feel good. That's awesome. Love to hear that should we? I've got a couple. I know we're coming up on an hour here but I've got a couple more quick, little things that are fun coming up under the our how old are you? Jesus,
it's time to go to bed every night. It's nice.
Find you have more time to have my warm milk and go to bed, an exact put on my overalls. Almost
a love.
Thank you. Tim needs a little splash of something to aft carbonated waters from crazy for me. So this is a fun one. Actually, this is completely off-topic but I thought it was just it's such
a fun one that I love. This is off
topic for the random show. Yeah, it's got a thank you very much, really appreciate it. So one of the things that I love about the random shows we can bring up anything, and it's just like, it's like, what are we excited about? What little hacks? We finding in. We used to do a lot of that back in the day.
Howard's on lazy. Yeah, we're like hired. Who has time for that? We were talking about this before
we live. We're gonna talk about like what cholesterol medicine were on each.
Yeah. Yeah. I was just saying the 20 year old versions of us
would be so disappointed. So disappointed. So inflation is is a bitch right now, right? It's kind of going crazy. One of the things that PSI at $34 avocado toast here in Santa Monica. It's not cheap. People are hurting. We got to go tomorrow, by the way, I know a great place. So one of the things
That I've always generally avoided are just bonds government bonds in because the interest rates have been shed, right? Yeah. So they have the something called the I bonds. And so I bought my letter. I yeah letter. I and so I bonds I'm dumb question. Yeah. I bonds. Yeah, exactly. Why not that you
like so the
letter i bonds you can buy directly on Treasury direct that dot-gov, which is a government website. And I've done this over the last couple of years and it
Great. They max out at 10 case, the most you can put, it is 10 grand and you can do it for you. Your spouse could have one and then also you can do it for your kids as well. And right now the I bought is based on the current inflation plus interest on top of that. So you get nine point six. Two percent from the government. Like that's good right in in granted that can change with inflation and all that but like I'll lock in that raid any day. Like I'll go for that for sure. So if you have a hundred dollars, you can do it. This is
This is applicable to pretty much everyone, right? So not investment Vice but no,
it's totally impossible. But if you use code Kev Kev, yeah, it was a government website. Use code Cairo, and identify
as a
child of hell. You just, it's one of those things where it's like, dude,
when you talk about a good year, on the stock market, you're talking, you know, 10% is what your kind of hoping for on average. Yeah, for sure. And, and that's with a lot of risk, right? In the fact that you can get a US Government Bond and
It's going to give you 9.62 right now. Like that's that's just like free money. So, I
mean listen, if the government defaults on their bonds? Yes, come after me but like I was like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well water trucks on the road at that point I'll be hard to find Kevin exactly. But anyway, at the start was worth bringing up a sure sign their attention clearly. If I'm
asking, if it's, I bond with an ey e. I've never heard of it either.
So, right there with you,
folks, I got to today for my
Kids and I'm just going to like put that as car money for the future. Yeah. It's Let It Go. And then when it expires all going reinvested and yeah, it's good. Cool. I Bondi bonds with an eye. All right, so I got a couple I'm not sure. This is camel is a hack but I'll just lump it in or include it because it relates to thematically the stuff that's going on in my mind and that is I watched a master class. So companies Master Class they have all these various
Instructional. So, people, every discipline you can imagine including a number of, I've already mentioned like, Neil Gaiman and they had one with Amy Tan, who's a very famous novelist. And the first few segments in particular, I found incredibly compelling and she's so eloquent. Also, she's she seems to speak in finished pros. And I only know, a few people like that and it always just blows my mind that they're able to do that Sam. Harris would be another one.
Waking up app. Remember side note, I don't think Sam would mind me asking at one point. I was listening to his many meditations and I listened to one and I texted him and I said Sam, is there any chance I could get the text for like the X y&z episode and he's like what do you mean the text? And I'm like the script that you used for recording, the, a b and c part of that episode. And he goes, oh, I don't, I don't use scripts
like,
Like oh yeah. You and I are just different animals. Different
species entirely. So the impressive you just wings that cause it's good content. I mean, he is yeah, he just has different hardware and it's not just a not born that way. I recognize it's also a skill that he's developed but Amy Tan, similar very, very well-spoken and extremely good explaining how she approaches different facets of fiction and how she has pulled from her.
Her own life. She also has an entire segment where she goes through all of the rejection letters or at least some of the most notable of the rejection letters that she got in the beginning. Just rejection after rejection after rejection. What was cool that you don't see. At least I didn't see when I got a lot of my rejections is fiction editors in a number of cases, gave her great feedback on her manuscript. So they read the whole thing and then they're like, this is what you could do to improve this part.
Are three other things you could do to really strengthen this aspect of it. You just least in my experience, don't get that from rejections and nonfiction. So it was cool to see, not just how she thought about responding to criticism. She's actually really grateful for a lot of the letters but also how much she gained from the feedback and then used to iterate or fiction, which is just fantastic. Do you do the monthly on that master class? Or do you do the yearly? I didn't either in this particular case
I got a freebie, a freebie on like Delta Airlines are united or
so I can keep getting billed for that shit. President of I always think I'm going to like watch a bunch of them, you know, and I slightly
hours hoping for match.com and because I could not figure out a castle
thing and it's like I haven't used match in like,
20 years. So you're welcome match.com. Yeah,
I still get fucked. All dress. She loves there's like two or three things. I just can't figure out how to cancel seriously and
You know what's funny is they? I figured it out.
The only Bill you close to midnight because they know the push notifications. Come through the other night. I was up late. It was like 11:30 and I had one of those pop down and it
was the year Levering. Yeah. Clever you fuck her. And then I went to bed. This guy don't know who it is. I forgot, but he got the coffee,
you know? Hey, that's growth hacking is
for exactly.
Let's see here, so physical training. I've been thinking a lot about
Physical training, I have got to cut now, dude. I
have a little bit of a gut she's yeah, I mean, look at this, look at this, I shit. Your status is like Fab. At least I'm
not. Are you kidding me now?
You're like, you're like, you're like fat bastard for me? See, Austin Powers me.
See it. Let me see. Okay, I'm definitely skinnier than you,
dude. You tell you what. No, not me
feel bad. Okay. You're a little
skinnier. Now. We like it. So I'm not
proud and I'm not gonna blame it on age, although I guess.
I will say things are slowing down, that's for
sure. Yeah, but I have actually lost a decent amount of this baby fat using a couple of geriatric fat with a few simple things. One is a sled so I have something called the XPO trainer that is a mechanically assisted or a say mechanically resisted sled so you don't have to load it with plates and it's on
an inflatable. I think their inflatable one may be solid rubber tires so you can use them on. Say, a driveway and I've been using the XP o trainer plus some jump rope, which is very minimal. Number of it was hard as. Yeah. I do that for like five or ten minutes. It's a big deal. You, I did jump rope recently. I was like dead afterwards. It's hard. Yeah. That's kind of the point
in the beginning, so I know. But like I thought it was gonna be like some schoolyard shit, that's just difficult. I know it's hard. It's hard. So I'll do the I'll do the jump rope, then
the expioded.
Rainer. And then, kettlebells and I have some alternation. But most mornings, I will do some combination of those things. And I've been doing, I mean, it's pretty easy for me to do intermittent fasting. So I'm just doing late lunch, early dinner. Hmm. Typically, can we get one of those croissants in the morning? I was telling you about look, man, I haven't seen you in what like, 27 years so vacation, yeah, I mean if I use travel as vacation equals, I can eat butter cookies. Anytime I want.
I'm going to turn. I will turn into fat bastard from Austin Powers, which is not the look. I'm going for, especially I imagine bald fat bastard. It's not good. No, you don't want that. No, all right. What else you got here? I think the last thing for me was that I did one of these full body scans, what? Oh yeah. So yeah. Daria is telling me it was true.
I do super no, we're not cutting a video of me doing Supernatural. I do a
VR workout called Supernatural. Three times a week. Have you tried this? I've no idea were talking about.
Oh my God, we have to get him to do it right after this, right? Yes. You're gonna freak out dude. Okay, it's really good. I hate VR. It's
stupid. That is amazing. Yeah. Well, I love that. You've been like short VR for like the last 10 years and I've made money being spent,
but you now own VR device? Yeah. Well, I've had a VR device. Are you have to play with all the latest shit? If you're technologist? Yeah. I'm just saying that. Like it's dumb except for this app. This app so amazing.
So Supernatural is it is
It's like you have two
lightsabers okay and you have to slice shit in the air and it sounds like it's not Fruit Ninja. It's like way better than that. It's done to music. It's choreographed to music. It's
amazing. Okay. And your loans and Ivy luck, lightsabers chopping things. Yeah, you were grafted music. I mean, that's three for three excited.
Anyway, Supernatural is how I get my hit in every every almost like every other day, very much so, so more more slicing and less jump rope. Yeah.
For more croissants, we're gonna try and afterwards. So, that's my big thing. The other thing I was going to say is I did one of those full body MRI scans God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll talk about this. This is something I need to get on. Yeah, you know what? Honestly, it was like, I don't know. It was my mom getting cancer. I think I did it before that. But like, I was just one of those things where I got to the stage where, in life, where I had a couple little girls and I'm like, you know, Tia was telling me he was like, Hey, you know, you can do these your, at the age now, where it makes sense. See if anything shows
Zup they can't act. It's something like eighty percent of cancers. It's stage one, which is amazing. Yeah. And so I was like okay let's do it so I went and did it two years ago, came back you know all the standard stuff like, oh, we see this here but you know, that's normal law. Like this is a little bit weird. You have an extra vertebrae which I actually did, which is weird. So a little vestigial tail. Yeah, exactly. A bunch of shit
like that is.
So I do that. And then
Go
for your to, I go and get the scan again and they call me up and they're like, yeah, turns out, you have a little brain aneurysm, a little small brain aneurysm and I'm like, I'm like what the fuck? Like this is crazy. Okay, tell me more and then after the fact, like a month later or not month later, but a few weeks later, my doctor calls them and says, hey what do we see in the first Scan? They found it on the first scan as well. It hadn't changed, which is great. Yeah and it's super tiny. It's the smallest my
Doctor said if they hadn't been using the latest tech, they wouldn't even have detected it at all because it was so small. So it's only one millimeter and they don't treat them till they get to 7. Mm. Yeah. So it's like it's totally fine. You want to keep your blood pressure low and all that but it's also it's weird because in some sense like you want to detect those stage 1 cancers but there's a lot of false positives not the same false positive. It's something to pay attention to certainly changing my dietary actions in terms of keeping sodium low and like lowering my blood pressure. Yeah. But it's something.
You yes, is why we're having croissants and coffee know exactly why I'm in this. Like I miss my Takashi. This fucking. Yeah. But you know it's not.
I mean was that I would imagine that to be terrifying, why? Yeah. It's 45 minutes. So it's fast and they not the procedure, the review of the results. Yeah, I mean you go through it and I have a couple spots on my brain and they told me you're allowed one per decade and so like you're fine, you have, you know, two or three or whatever. That's fine. I'm like, okay, this doesn't sound
good. Like oh wait, yes I can.
Bruised, Apple, but that's fine. Yeah. And they're like, they're like your
lymph nodes at this the first game, they're like your lymph nodes are really swollen on the left side. I'm like cool. Like what does that mean? And they're like, did you get your your covid vaccine on that side? I'm like, yeah, I did know like, okay, that's why. And then that would turn into being fine and then, you know, they found like some other shit. Like, there's a little bit of like, a little
little tail know, there's a
little, like, like I have this little tiny bulge in my right nut sack.
That then,
It's just it's kind of like the little stringy thing that connects
to the sack kind of bulged out a little bit and then like this totally normal. If I can answer your fine blah
blah. So like you know it's just bullshit. Like that. Cool. Oh my God, I can't wait until our random shows when we're like in our 67 days. It's just gonna be a Litany of injuries and prostate complaints.
Oh my God. So
I still let me just rewind, so I make sure no just make
sure I'm hearing you correctly. So
were you pissed that they did not get her changed? Yeah, that they didn't spot it, you know summer I think it was it was so small that they just they have different. It's not a radiologist. Whoever it is that reviews. It it's probably really I think it is. I think the first part was like this is so insignificant I don't even need to call it out and the second one called it out for they were just like and then they compared the notes and it was fine. This is the story I haven't told.
Friend of mine went in had a scan, they found a growth in his brain, non-cancerous decent-sized, operated removed it, he's fine. But he didn't even know he had it and he was just going in for, for a thing and it was growing. Yeah. And it saved his life, most likely. Yeah, that's that's wild and so it's shit like that. And the radiologist want to talk to him. He said the number he goes, I don't really drink. He goes with the number of bottles of wine. I get in the mail from people there. Like you saved my life because you found this at stage one.
Stage 2, I don't know. It's just one of those things where get your Diagnostics foes and I mean do it more. I hesitate to say this but like don't don't push out the interval. If you're supposed to get something every five years, if anything get it, more frequently, don't push it out. So I have recently had the opposite experience with a friend of mine who went in for a routine exam, stage 4, cancer terminal. Holy shit. I just spent several days with them.
And not have got cancer. Not because I don't want to give specifics just in case people like triangulate stuff but it's metastasized and at this point surgery at least some type of surgery. Don't make any sense. And man if you want a proof point for
What someone can do with Decades of meditation, practice. He is incredibly upbeat. He's super happy. He is.
As productive as he can, be spending a lot of time with loved ones, of course, but he is consciously choosing of all the decision trees a path of gratitude and not naive optimism. But optimism is in the sense of looking at everything as the glass half full. And
I was so inspired by this because I'm going through some hard stuff myself and to see someone in those circumstances, able to demonstrate that just blew my mind and I've spent I know him well enough and we've had enough interactions. I know it is not an act, it is not act and I'm really impressed because that's not automatically at the case. I mean, there are people including famous famous meditators, who are world famous teachers, who on their Death Beds or in the
Process of going through hospice, just say over and over again to their closest friends. Like I don't want to die, I Don't Wanna Die. I don't wanna die and they're afraid which is understandable. I might be that person. I mean certainly I have no confidence that I would end up responding the way my friend is responding, but it's been incredibly inspiring. Wow, yeah. And we'd certainly sad in its own way, but a real gift that he's also giving those around him. It's incredible. How you doing with the deal with all that?
You mean with with his situation being a friend is having a friend go through something like that, you know, are you going to see him again? You think before he passes? Or is it something I would like to? I would like to I mean it's I don't know how long the time Horizon is. It's it's it may not be that long. I am doing well with it because of how he is able to
Choose to respond to this unfolding story.
Of course, it's Adam number of levels, but meanwhile, we all have one way ticket as far as we know, you know, my dad before he passed. So there's no lease on life. He just like wanted to remind me of that. Yes. Like, you know, it's coming for all of us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's and it's not something you want to think about all the time, right? But you think about it, none of the time you also have problem. And this this has been a very strong reminder, for me. It was like, yeah, get it together you
Like, when I had don't dick around too much, like have fun, don't take everything seriously, but also realize that like every moment you have like this not to get all cheesy, but it's like, these are precious.
Amazing moment. Yeah, everybody's healthy. Yeah I think about that. With my girls everyday did in the kids you know I had Sam Harris on the podcast a while ago, a couple years ago and we talked about the Buddhist monk that was sitting in a meditative pose on the cover of Rage Against the Machine that doused himself in gasoline in defiance of local government and lit himself on fire and did not flinch. And this has been recorded and there was pictures and everything else video.
Video to not move. Yeah. Holy shit. You won't talk about meditation really working like old Claude? Yeah, yeah, I can't do that.
Like I can barely stay on a cold plunge this morning for three minutes. So, yeah, I was in the sun today. I like 15 minutes ago made 2011
go for it. Yeah, yeah. It I mean, it's
All these things are kind of, by all these things. I guess I'm bookending. Some of our earlier discussion, the touched on psychedelics, and I mentioned Psychiatry, and these tectonic plate shifts that I think are currently underway but will be most noticeable, five ten years from now and the types of Feats that were describing
All point to severe. I think, under appreciation for what we are capable of, in terms of shaping, mind and consciousness.
Right? Because lighting yourself on fire, not flinching should not be possible.
No I'm not. Yeah clearly and even David Blatt like no one should I? Yeah, no one wants to end
up having to test that, right? But there are a lot of outcomes that were seeing say in treating various diagnosis related to. I don't have a mental illness, but psychiatric conditions that are considered intractable or extremely difficult to treat and some of the outcomes that we're seeing which are not solely.
Produce through psychedelics, I don't want to make psychedelic sound like Panacea of any type. They're not they have some, in some cases, very significant risks but it's clear that many of the paradigms through which we've treated patients, specifically with any type of what we would consider. Mental illness is, is likely resting on a number of assumptions that are completely untrue. Yeah. And that's exciting. It's really exciting. I remember our friend,
While 20 years ago was speaking about chemotherapy and said how barbaric it will look in the future and it turns out that it's actually true. We have immunotherapy now my mom's going through it, like there's a lot of these things that are very very promising and we're just like a few years away from some really exciting breakthroughs. I'm not sure if you saw that New York Times article about the was like eight out of eight patients cured with this new type of immunotherapy and cancer though. You see that was a groundbreaking crazy study about this.
New type of immunotherapy. That's just now coming out here soon but I'd imagine the same is true for psychedelics, right? Like you know 20 years from now they'll honed it and figured out the right dose the right. I mean they may even modify those molecules like who knows where it's going to go but it's going to be exciting. It is going to be exciting. I think the you know, we're all driven by
Our beliefs are these thoughts. We take to be true and assumptions. Even scientists are subject to this, right? I mean, scientists are not robots and so you have anyone doing anything comes in with certain set of biases or biases. And in psychedelics, you see also in the Psychedelic for-profit sector, you see a lot of motivated, reasoning,
Knowing where you have a number of split camps and different kind of schisms Within These communities. And one of them is between Camp, a and Camp, a believes that many of the clinical outcomes for depression and PTSD. And so on are driven by the content of an experience and the narrative that you can restructure After You observe It For the First Time, perhaps write the software that's behind many of your decisions blah blah blah blah blah they think.
It's the content, which case, if that is your belief and in an ideal world, you would be able to test these things definitively. In many people are making attempts at this, but it's really challenging. Then you want enough work space to allow all that to play out. So let's just say psilocybin and having a session of four to six hours, be viewed as a feature, not a bug, then you have can't be which is saying oh yeah, all those hallucinations terrible side effects
Really what's happening is on this structural level and this type of XYZ is happening to this receptor and that, then we can do all that.
If we change the molecule without the Psychedelic effects, and also press it into like a 30-minute session, and that will copy and paste into our current medical, formatting, much more easily. But there's a profit motive there, right? Because if you can scale something in that way and reduce some of the quote-unquote side effects and also patent it. Yeah, and absolutely patent it. And then also make it a drug that you need to take at least twice a week or maybe even every day
Instead of once a month or once every three months that there's a really bad thing, though. It's not automatically a bad thing. But I just think it's important for folks to be aware of incentives and to track and such right because then just turns into another, a better antidepressant, which is not necessarily A Bad Thing, not necessarily A Bad Thing. It depends on how the antidepressant is, achieving its effects, right? And there are immediate changes that can be beneficial in a whole host of different situations with medicine. Generally speaking, right? So with the pharmacological,
Uncle intervention. It's like if you're if you're bleeding out and you need coagulant like you don't want the
you don't have to wait a long
time for that to work and similarly like if you are suffering from suicidal ideation and are at risk of harming or killing yourself, you need something that's going to work really quickly in which case just putting this out there as an intravenous ketamine graph treatment may be the number one thing, right? Something you consider it's not going to fix all of your problems but it's going to stop the
Bleeding. So to speak. Isn't that what they do? If someone comes in and they're about to commit suicide, don't think give them might be ketamine. Like, I've heard, that's the thing. I don't know what it looks like. Actually, I'd love to hear from people in the audience who know, how something like that is triage to, in an ER, and somebody shows up and maybe a loved one. Brought them and they're like, I'm gonna blow my head off. I would have to imagine there's like sedation, maybe they use some hypnotics, they might use ketamine. I don't know. But in a, I had heard that one side. The I dunno, I know a number
Number of people who were on the verge of blowing their heads off, who with competence supervised ketamine, assisted therapy.
I mean, literally, within one or two sessions were able to say, I don't know what I was so upset about like I can't even believe I was so wound up about that and that's incredible. It's not a indefinite fix. But to answer your question to come back, like there are cases in which I think it makes sense to have some type of Maintenance dose, right? So let's just say you're able to strip out a bunch of the hallucinogenic or psychedelic effects from LSD and it remains incredibly effective for
Stir headaches, which is actually one indication and the best combination of affect and minimizing side effects is to have like some small dose for five days a week, great fantastic. But if you're trying to process or contend with some type of childhood trauma, that has been plaguing your automatic behaviors and maybe dictions, perhaps self-destructive, or otherwise destructive,
Then, I don't know if what we need is a maintenance drug. There may be more psychological surgery, required for that, in which case, perhaps the content does play a meaningful role. I happen to believe. That's the case in many instances, but 10 years from now. Yes, I could always going to be crazy because it's subject to these Market forces in these incentives. So don't ask a barber if you need a haircut kind of situation.
If you could an orthopedic surgeon and you're like, do
I need surgery? They're not all going to say you need surgery but they have a certain incentive to do surgeries as realizing that in advance is important. But I do think what we will find through the study of psychedelics is even if psychedelics as compounds were to disappear. 10 years from now let's just say, let's just say they go back to being reclassified rescheduled and then all over the
Place. And then who knows like some Senators. Kid, jumps off a balcony. And then the whole thing goes kaput and it's thrown back into psychedelic scientific winter, even if that's the case within the next 10 to 15 years. I think we will learn so many new things about the functioning of the mind and processing of trauma. Metabolizing of difficult experience and
Issues such as treatment resistant, depression complex, PTSD that the treatment paradigms will shift even if the compounds disappear, which I don't think they will. And I also think there are so many indications that do not require high doses of psychedelics, which will be well treated with lower doses of psychedelics. So I'm excited to see what bears out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, awesome. Anything else you want to cover?
I think that's it for me. Yeah, I'm good as well. It was awesome. Yeah. Good to see you brother. Yeah. Good to see you too, man. Thanks for having me over for dinner. Yeah, sitting on our couch here. Mr. Tose is in the background for those watching the audience. Yeah, 12 and doing well, yeah, passed out. So you know not that long while it is I mean it is long not in like historical.
Evolutionary terms. But in like our lifetime terms while ago, I we had it, we had a shot very much like this in San Francisco and what here I don't say first Apartments, but I should be earlier apartments with a couch like this and toast walked by as a puppy and chewed through one of
these audio cap. XLR cables, totally
back. Then I had a little bit of hair. That's right. I think
I'm crazy that you had a hair back
then yes, weird. This
Heard somebody was asking me they're like, yeah but you could probably figure out how to regrow hair and I'm like, yeah, but if I just suddenly like disappear for six months and then reappeared with like a huge mop of my head. I
mean, that's what a Lamaze. Did you see the early Elon Musk pictures? Were you have? Yeah, you could do it. I could do it.
But I am. I don't I don't feel the need be. I just think especially from my friends. I would get so much endless shit. Do you think you should do it Dart blast? And are you right now? She said no. Now,
No, yeah, it's tempting. Yeah, mr. Clean, I've grown into the
mr. Clean look. I'm good with
it. All right, brother. All right, we'll get this again in a few
months, yeah, for sure.
Yeah. See, more of each other in person. All right, face.
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