Hello everyone and welcome to the NeverEnding dialogue with my friend feel good stuff, and I every day is an interesting opportunity to pick his brain and soak appeal first off. How are you?
Doing well always in Zen mode. So as we always do I want to I always love to start with asking you to think about the most fascinating thing that you experience our learned this week. So I throw it to you.
It's never that way it's never it's never linear and it's never something new that I you know, it all just kind of Blends in so it's I never I don't really think of it that way so I wouldn't know what to say. So and did anything blend in particularly well this week.
No, that's just that's just a backdoor way of asking the same question. No, nothing happened. Nothing happened at all. No, nothing happened that made it Wireless and it's just very moment know that Mom. No, I'm not looking for Extraordinary moments. I have no interest in extraordinary moments. I'm you know, I'm very much interested in in in an arrival and whatever the whatever the rocky or calm or whatever the moments are that lead to that. It's all I'm really interested. That's where lot with my eyes are while did your eyes see anything towards that arrival this week that we haven't talked about in the past though. You just won't let it go. No, of course not don't you know me by now nothing what whilst others I'll still come back to the think I mean things just you know, when they arise they arise I don't I don't I don't think about them to talk about
I don't the common they're gone and usually if they come I'll mention them in on Twitter. So in in honesty Twitter, probably the better person to ask. Well, there's a lot of talk this week on Twitter on decision making
From you I don't look okay. I can I say you probably don't remember but I want to get to in a minute but I want it I want to dump on a couple things that happened to me this week that I want to get your perspective on because I know we touched on those issues briefly, but I was at a conference earlier this week where I got to see a bunch of old faces and meet new friends. And as I was kind of reflecting on the way back it was in San Diego on the experience of started to think about the authenticity of some of those relationships. I know you keep a very tight or very high bar on who you allow in your life. How do you distinguish between a real relationship and a phony one?
No, it's a good question. You know, I don't really know if there are any so-called real relationships outside of the relationship that you have with yourself. And I think that all other relationships are basically an extension and a mirror of that one. So, you know, I what I the things that I enjoy talking about or exploring really in all honesty are the things that I enjoy exploring with clients and you know, I the social scene that's very very narrow for me. You know, I don't go to parties get-togethers unless I'm drag there once a year or somewhere somehow. I don't know how I get there. But but it's a very tight it's it's not
And it's not because there are not nice people in the world and what they absolutely are. It's just that I as you know, the more I go along in life the more it becomes painfully clear that the things that I want to look into are not really the things that others want to look into. Yeah, and that's that's what I respect so much about you and that's why I asked right because coming back, you know, it's a couple hour drive. I was just really thinking, you know, there's a lot of people who know how to put on a face or put on an act that when they see you at one of those events or conferences. It's a hello and it's very cordial but there's really no meaning to that relationship and you come back and you think you know these kind of these relationships they don't nourish my life. Why the hell do I keep them? Well, thank you that, you know, I would say that
Very close to zero in relationships nourish anyone's life. The thing that people get from relationship is a respite from loneliness. The things that people get from relationship is a chance to you know, laughs and discuss things most of which are menial. So the if you look at the foundation of relationships mean there is nothing but cracks in the foundation, so I'm not sure how many of those really there there are, you know, every every every friendship every relationship not only is a friendship but even the setting of family, I mean, you're always just a Heartbeat Away from disaster. Nothing in this life is is solid, you know, it's all thin ice.
Why do we why do why do most people run away from the relationship with themselves very few people are willing to ever talk about that.
Well, I mean why why would anyone you know because it is in many ways very dangerous to have those to look into that relationship with yourself because you find things that you don't really want to see and it's far easier to ignore and deny because as soon as you verbalize something it becomes real so the the interior already of the human being is a very dangerous place.
How do you yourself describe the relationship with yourself? Like when you like what I throughout that whole relationship thing and you brought it up about the most important relationship and I really agree with that is the relationship you have with yourself. How do you describe that? I think it really is looking into where all of your sort of your emotions come from it is where your it's in the ways in which a given individual is attached to all the things in his life and all the people in his life and how those attachments and how those those ropes and chains that bind have a very costly impact upon him or her
so I think learning about those things makes it clear and gives residents and and an insight into
why one says beliefs thinks feels the way that he does. I think I think breaking apart that foundation and tearing off all the layers. It is not something that's healthy or good for you or recommended but in doing so that actually is the way to arrive at any semblance of solidity in one's life in which one doesn't live like a leaf in the wind and would you say for you personally? That's the most important work of your life right now.
It's the only work. He doesn't really work. I mean there's nothing else than that. Everything else is is simply an offshoot of that. That's the foundation. There is nothing else. It's not really work. It's my necessity.
If for you, right I think the rest of the world and the rest of us, well it is it is and that yeah it is for them to but they just haven't realized it. So I'm curious. What is the correlation between some of the issues that you're called to work on with some of your best clients and their relationship with themselves. Is there always a connection it's there's no two things to connect. It's always that.
Irrespective of what they're dealing with professionally.
Yeah, there's if they're dealing with it is them that's the issue.
What does it take for somebody to see that?
Because we've been hearing you talk about it for at least for me personally for a couple of years, right and I'm nowhere near where I need to be in recognizing that.
I think it depends upon where you want to go and we're no where are you? No longer want to be
So unless there's unless there's some impetus which creates an urgency then you sort of you sort of, you know, sink into the collecting ground so to speak and and that's where the mind wanders looking for prescriptions because you don't really want it anyway, so you might as will reach out for a morsel of prescription that you want, you know, so it really has to be some some sense of urgency that arises from one to even look in that direction and as n is always seems like those sense of urgency. These are crisis.
Somebody's facing some difficult challenge. It's true. You know, it's true. It's true. But unfortunately even then once the challenge is over than the default State returns. So one of the most life-changing things is, you know, for some people is for instance a near-death experience. You know, I think I think as a human being I should have a near-death experience once a quarter.
Because then that keeps a person on his toes.
And it keeps the hunger alive before truly truly seeking and evaluating what's you know that the foundation of things so for for you does that is it a vision that you construct to start to think of life that way or you know, obviously you don't know, you know, Adam. No. No II never leave it.
Yeah, I'm at the point where I don't I never leave it. So that's why don't they say that you live. Absolutely. Yeah, I don't I don't know why but I've I've reached a point of no return. I don't need any any any event to make me dive head long into the interiority of the corridors of myself in order to learn about the mind at that's 24/7. It's all I do and then not it isn't even a doing. I don't have any choice.
Is that something that you try to encourage some of the people that you work with to get into that headspace? No.
Not only encouraged that that's something that has to be self-induced. Yeah, and usually those things happen by way of inspiration.
They don't read they don't happen by by way of in formation.
One of the things that you what are the tweets that you mentioned one of the many tweets that I highlighted this week was this whole idea of conflicts between business partners are never solved by compromises. Yes, help me understand that a little bit because that kind of leech to some of the business relationships that I want to get into with you. Yeah a conflict between not only business partners for any relationship if you compromise what happens it's never 50/50, right? Because if each person compromises then what they have left after they have compromised is just a shell of who they are. And and therefore the relationship is the king. I don't think the relationship should be the king because if the relationship is the king then that means there's no people it's just a relationship.
So that what you compromise away you will resent for having been forced to compromise away.
So it isn't about compromise. It's about uncompromised. And and that doesn't mean what it sounds like. It means uncompromised does not mean that this is just the way that I feel and too bad well.
If there were each person has to reach their non-negotiables each person has to arrive at the the the thing they cannot do or cannot keep from doing because if they do that or keep from doing that whatever that thing maybe then they they they lose their Center. They lose their Foundation. They lose their Essence. They lose the very thing that drives them. They lose their engine whatever that may be so it is about finding what the non-negotiables are. It is about finding what the uncompromising Bulls are as opposed to compromising for the sake of that only leads to problems. It doesn't fix anything.
And so when when two people say that when each person says in the in the in the relationship that these are the things that I'm hard lined on because it's not for my sin is Superfluous way, but this is truly in My DNA and I can't cross that line nor would you want me to cross it? Because if I crossed it, I wouldn't be the person that you want to be in business with be that that makes that's my DNA and when those lines are set then what can be compromised on are the things that you hold Loosely. So the things that you compromise on are the things that you don't really care about
You don't compromise on the things about who you are.
So I think these things have to be worked out and these things have to be put on the table and I think that it when you look at things in this manner, it is a fundamentally different approach than it is to say I'll give a little if you give a little it doesn't go anywhere. That's empty.
And I really appreciate that and I assume the best time to establish that as at the outset of a relationship not maybe maybe not. I mean at the outside of a relationship, you know a person may not know what his DNA is you know, so it's whenever you know, it's whenever the person discovers the uncompromising DNA and the lines that he is not willing to cross that and I think that's when of that conversation can be had, you know, everything has to be based upon honesty.
Not for moral good. I don't give to such a moral good honesty because honesty works that's why if honestly didn't work. I would recommend dishonesty all day and all week.
but honesty works
honesty creates something with in the heart of the human being which engenders him to him.
It allows for a solid foundation upon which to build things forever Force anything of any lasting value to occur.
And human beings are not really taught to be honest. They're taught to be clever.
They're taught to do X Y and Z their talk to do this and don't do that. They're not really talked to be frank and forthright.
Everything and everything in society is a a Flinch and a beating around the bush and they don't step on that toe and don't say that too loudly and it doesn't mean that you do the exact opposite because that also would be reactive but it's about moving forward with with honesty. How do you really feel about this?
No, no one's honest with themselves.
Everyone's every everyone's a liar. And as a society we hail clever like anybody absolute clever. It's like wow, he's on the cover of magazines. That's right, or she's on the cover of magazines. Yeah, if two business partners at are at this relationship crisis mode where each thinks they're there their contribution is disproportionate to the other. Is it too late to have this uncompromising conversation?
It's never too late to have the convert the conversation know it the resentments might have built to a point where it's too late to mend them but it's never too like to have to have the conversation even if it is to discover that very fact.
That it's just it's too much to fix right? And and do you what do you think about these non-negotiables or the key things that are unwilling to compromise on do you have a general rule of how many of these things you don't want me to make a list of 50? Right? Are they the absolute essential things that I'm unwilling to compromise on?
Yeah, it really is an intellectual. It's real it's really feel and the essence so it's not really a number but it really comes down to the things that you
the things that you feel in your heart that you just can't do.
Or cannot do.
Do you have a criteria that if you were and I know this is not going to happen to you. But if you were to select a business partner for whatever reason what criteria would you use to select as individual who could potentially be a business partner for you?
You know, I'm reminded of a person.
Billy Beane
Yeah, if it's the Billy Beane, I'm thinking about yeah, so there's a there's a there's a scene in that wonderful wonderful film.
right
in which Moneyball in which he is talking to the stats guy that they hire and
And he says to him, you know one way or another we're going to see this through either we're all in or not. And if we're all in then we're going to fire the entire team, right and we're going to trade every player that we have to until we get it just the way we want because oh it's only then that we know whether the system works or not. We can't go halfway.
You know, that's the guy.
That's how things get that's that's exactly how things that's that's exactly how the truth is learned. Right? It isn't and it would be a mistake to assume that because he had success that that was the right thing to do. I fundamentally disagree with that.
It was truth. Either way, the the truth was that you had to carry out the system to 80 with no exceptions no compromises and because it is only then that you will know for a fact whether it worked or it didn't because if he did it 90% you would never be sure if that 10% was a wrench in the system or the system itself didn't work.
So that that all in type sincerity is something that to me is invaluable.
And early on in a relationship. Do you just feel it? You know, I don't know that you necessarily, you know, stay with the person that you start with, you know these things change. So if you do it over time it
There's there's you know, the person's begins to lose his way or you don't feel that that solidness within the guy or the sincerity Wayne's or whatever. It may be then it may be that he had it one time. It doesn't have it anymore. So it isn't necessarily doesn't have to be a long term thing. But but the willing but the willingness to want to know the truth the willingness and the true desire to
Do you know?
I would be partial to someone who had a a real objection. Almost a a hatred.
For the status quo.
Who was who would be embarrassed to follow the status quo?
I think that would be a very foundational element. I would look for contempt contempt for the status quo.
And how about this whole the whole idea of trust trusting somebody to dive into business with deserve a filter that you have that you go through in your mind early on on whether or not you feel you can trust this person or is that even important? You know, you know trust is something that you find out over time you will get obviously you will get to mistrust very quickly if you know if that shows its teeth, but but trust establishes itself over time.
Well, you had a great threat why the best threads this week was about perf making perfect decisions and I want to just dive into a couple of those in a second. But is there such a thing as a perfect decision? Yes. Okay, describe it for me.
The perfect decision is the pure decision. The perfect decision is the Perkins the decision that is that has no interference or reactivity.
And is that what you mean by saying? It does not produce self. Conflict, correct?
And and is and you and I perfect decision does not always produce the so-called perfect result. It may produce it accorded in in one way a perfect decision always produces. The perfect result of the reason that I say that is because the perfect result in a particular human beings eyes is not
Always a perfect result.
We'll see that's why I bring it up because I think you captured in about eight or nine words what countless books and articles talk about is this whole Art and Science or whatever of decision-making when you said that the decision is wise if it does not produce self conflict, that doesn't mean that the decision is going to be right or doesn't mean that the decision is going to be wrong. I look at that as being one of those uncompromising things that you talked about is hey, as long as I feel no inner anxiety when I make a decision whether it's right or wrong, I'm going to make it am I on the right track and thinking like that?
I can I think that I think that can be bastardized. I would say that as long as I feel nothing after having made it.
Then it's a perfect decision.
We're conscience doesn't open its mouth and neither does fear and neither does excitement. When were there's a flat line and and because if you do it before then, you know, people are clever human beings and they'll pull out their prescription book and they'll spend 30 minutes meditating to make themself calm. And then in that in that narrow 14 second window to make the decision and CC I made it. Well, I had no anxiety and then on the 15th second, of course, they become crushed by the anxiety that they've you know held at the door. So I think it's the one I think it's the feeling after you have made it.
So what do you think paralyzes people? I know far too many people could peel who are paralyzed to make decisions in their lives. And one of the most important decisions is to is what you and I have been talking about for several years to make this commitment to go on this uncompromising journey to the truth. So whether it's personally or professionally or relationally there's an overwhelming majority of people who aren't willing to make tough decisions are important decisions in their lives.
What's the question is it fear?
Certainly some Arts of the fear of being wrong, especially in business the fear of not wanting to see the truth as opposed to following the road of prescription that what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, you know human beings are conditioned. So I think it's I'm not sure it's correct to believe that they really have a choice.
Between following the truth or being or following their programming and conditioning to seek prescriptions. They're not they're not the, you know, sitting in a vacuum in which they can truly go either way.
the could pull and the gravity of the conditioning is too great, which means that the pole and the gravity of seeking the truth as a result of either because having become
Tired how about having wasted their lives with prescriptions or by a genuine desire to seek the truth? Either one will work but
no one's really sitting in neutrality having to make an intellectual decision as to whether they will seek the path of prescription or truth which the role of intuition in your life.
I think the difficulty is
Deciphering between conditioned intuition and natural intuition hmm, you know and don't ask me how it's lesson. I've learned my lesson. Yeah, it's I think that question is the greatest how there is in this particular context the very fact of knowing that the intuition that's coming up is that arising from conditioning and programming having lived in a society? Is that a is that a reflex Behavior or is it true? I think that question has to be genuinely asked not verbally enough not mechanically and not prescriptively that question has to be explored knowing that that intuition isn't just intuition.
And when do you know you're you're getting a glimpse of the truth for you personally?
When it is in a reaction to something and and when it is in a play for something.
When there can be no other choice.
Totally you all right. I want to ask you two more things in Easter requested questions from people who listen to us often a leader wants to know is do you have a preferred method at setting organizational goals from the perspective of understanding that?
We goals meaning goals that are just incremental growth are lead to complacency impossible goals in her eyes are difficult to get people inspired around. So, where is that sweet spot so we can get an organization to Rally around something that that it hasn't done before.
There's no rallying. Okay. First of all, everything's got to be doing done with one person the leader. There's no rallying. There's no pep rally. There's no there's no Collective little group all that those ideas have to be completely, you know jettisoned in asking that question.
Whatever leader that you're speaking of who asked that question. It should be known that this leader is placing a massive and enormous ceiling upon him or herself in asking that question no matter what answer.
That they possibly could receive.
The very question is a dead end.
So, how are the teams inspired vision?
There's no team. There's no team though the it listen if you have 10 people in a room, let's be honest. I'm not here for diplomacy. Right? We need to tell the truth where to speak the truth. I'm not I'm not here to make friends and make everyone happy. It's just because I speak the truth if you have a group of 10.
If you have one in those 10 who was an unique rare DNA outside the box human he needs to run like health and the other nine.
Because I can guarantee you in a group of 10. You're not going to have that one and if by some miracle you do, you're not going to have to
so that one is going to be swallowed by the nine. So that one needs to forget about motivating anyone or rallying anything that one needs to become so world class.
Hitler Ted arriving at purity
At arriving at internal wholeness and arriving at making perfect decisions get arrived at arriving at crystallizing his or her vision without any interference feedback questioning or pollution by any of the other nine.
And it's not going to be written in any book and it's not gonna be bad and down really low pressure a princess. Yeah that we know for sure.
So no one's going to discuss these things because because it's it's it's too Stark. Okay, it's the absolute truth. There are not that many.
rare DNA human beings in the world
in the ones that there are and there are there are several five to be exact. Well, whatever. They're all maybe six this week. They're never in the same. They're never in the same group. Never
So wherever they are all around the world they need.
To allow themselves the permission to be unabashedly who they are.
Because they are like the sand that's being lapped by the ocean of the common.
Who was wearing away their Foundation?
So if I'm if I am this individual running this company and I know that hey one out of the ten or five out of the fifty or a hundred out of the 5,000. Well that leader has to be that one. You know, that leader has to be that one.
What the hell do I do the other 4,500?
So, you know when the one is completely the one people fall in line.
but the way usually works if you open a door of
Kumbaya, all you're going to get is filth and all you're going to get is interference in noise. And all you're going to get is putting massive ceilings on a company that could have been great.
if it had been run by way of
You know a single leader as opposed to you know, give me feedback. It's such a it's such just nonsense. It's because you're right. It's conditioning give me feedback as to how you think. I mean like I told you in the last podcast, you know Rembrandt doesn't ask for feedback.
But if you're not was one of my favorite lines, right and if if you're not a Rembrandt then realize that right but you know, but you have to ask real questions you cannot you cannot go to business conferences and meet with common people in the business community and discuss these business ideas and these leadership ideas and these methods and techniques and five ways to lead and be kind to your employees and don't say that and don't fire them fire this one too. Don't fire that one and make sure I mean we do you think this is I mean, it just people are not serious. They're just not serious the juvenile.
Yeah, well and then you know, they know that you are certainly one of a kind. So here's my last question to you. One of the things that that have really have tremendous respect that I've gained from you about approaching life is to have these non-negotiables are uncompromising, you know ways that I want to lead my life, but the whole idea of not really caring about what others think is really almost liberating. So when I think about people living like that is that kind of a glimpse of what Freedom looks like for people who really truly live that way
I think that's a massive milestone.
To arrive at not caring what anyone thinks about you not even your own family not even your own kids, not your spouse. Not your boss. If you're famous, not your followers, not your audience. Let your fans Not the media to do not reactively but to genuinely arrived in that place inside yourself because you have really explored who you are and who you are not and the things that you have pretended to be and owned up to pretending to be them inside yourself and
And in in in removing, all of those facades within you to where you arrive at this enormous calm because you no longer have to put on a face. That's an enormous milestone in a human beings life.
Well, I I am eternally grateful for you for helping me see that for myself. And I think wasn't just the thing last thing. I want to leave people with with this is it doesn't mean you need to be rebellious. You know, I think when someone starts to truly believe that it brings out the best in them it brings out again, one of the things that you talked about. I think the first conversation we has is it's not about trying to acquire more things or more knowledge. It's really about accessing which there and I think that feeling enables you to access what's inside that ordinarily probably wouldn't have come through most of the time.
Sure.
So, thank you.
certainly
