What up, genius lifers. It's episode 170, happy to have you here.
What's going on everybody? Welcome to another episode of the show and happy Wednesday. By the way, sometime, hope you guys are doing well, I'm actually here, I'm your host. I'm a filmmaker Mahal design journalist, and I'm the author of The New York Times best-selling book, genius foods, and the genius life. I'm so pumped introduce you guys to today's guest. Her name is dr. Amy Shaw. She's a board certified, double board, certified medical doctor.
And is an expert in helping busy people. Transform their health using cutting-edge nutritional and medical science. She's the author of the new book. I'm so effing tired, a proven plan to beat burnout, boost your energy and reclaim your life out. Now I love that title guys. In today's episode we're going to chat about how circadian biology including sleep. Should be a priority because it is just as important to physical and mental health as nutrition and exercise dr. Shaw is going to explain how disrupting your circadian clock can cause
you to actually feel like you're experiencing a bad hangover without having had drunk, consume any alcohol. And those symptoms can include brain fog and low energy. So, if you're experiencing any of those on a regular basis, you're definitely going to want to pay close attention to what. Dr. Shaw shares. We're also going to discuss how what you eat and how you exercise can be optimized by when you eat. And when you exercise super important stuff and we're also going to discuss fasting
Women, which is a topic that many of you have specifically requested, especially in light of the fact that the past few episodes that I've put out where we've really focused on fasting. Well, my guests have been men, so for any, ladies in the audience or fellows, who have a ladies in your life, who have been experimenting with intermittent fasting, this is definitely going to be a relevant episode that you are going to want to share with others. By the end of episode, you're going to know exactly how to optimize your routine.
For more energy, less stress and better digestion. So please strap in your seat belt and get ready for the knowledge because dr. Shaw, certainly brings it before. We dive in. As you guys know, the past year has been unique to say. The least. And has seen many people pivot in both their health and their careers. I love a good pivot. That's why I'm excited to tell you about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition AKA iin and their health coach training program. Iin is an OG in the field of Health coaching and their online.
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World, you guys, if we have a great guest, will usually text our friends who also have other podcasts and Amy's. One of those people who was so great on his that he knew that I had to have her on mine and here's the conversation that ensued. Dr. Amy Shaw. What's going
on? Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. So fun.
So, glad to have you. You've been doing the rounds, huh? This morning, you were over at the broken brain show and then the model Health show, all of your buddies.
Everybody, everybody lives in the same little
It's amazing.
It is cool. It feels kind of like yeah it's like this it's a new mediascape, you know and you've got like your shows, you know.
But but it all of you guys you you know especially you you have huge audiences. Huge shows you're talking about little bit different stuff. There's so much, there's so much good information that you have spread out in the world. It's
important. That's what we're trying to do and we all have like are different like
lenses. Yeah, right. Totally different lenses. Yeah, it's
interesting.
Well, I'm excited to talk to you. You've actually, we were connected via Sean, shout out to Sean Stephenson at the model Health show, who just said really incredible things about you. And so yeah, I'm excited to do to do a deep
dive. Yeah, let's do it.
Um, before we got rolling, you were talking a little bit about circadian biology and how that's something that you've become passionate about.
Yeah, very because we don't hear about this. We
Talk about it. We talk about eating healthy, all the time, we talk about, you know, exercise all the time. But I didn't know that you are literally a different person in the morning, in the afternoon in the evening because 80% of our genes are turning on and off, depending on the time of day that you're in, it's just mind-blowing that we don't have technology or policies around improving our circadian rhythms and thing.
Kicking it up. So you know we're eating at crazy times of the night we're staying up, crazy times we're getting blue light at all kinds of times. I really do think that not just cleaning up our own personal routines which we can do and that's what I talk about in my book but also having you know some policies technology education around how other people can improve their energy and long-term Health, brain health long term, which met
Like Health by just changing how we look at light and dark.
Hmm that's so interesting. I want to get into the specifics of how we can, you know, better suit our, you know, our routines to what we know about circadian biology. But how did you become interested in this topic?
I had my own burnout journey and I don't think that anyone any one of us at this point especially can say that there isn't a Time.
In your life where you just felt completely burned out, it's more than just fatigue, like, you know, you feel fatigued but you also feel almost like disconnected and you feel the exhaustion is more than a good night sleep. You know, away it is something that's persistent and it changes your mood and it may sprung spring up as anxiety and GI symptoms. And so I was in this place and as a I did nutrition, that's undergrad. I was a physician double board certified.
And I kept thinking to myself like something's off, I don't feel right. This is not just being tired, this is like there's something. So instead of diagnosing myself, I asked some of my colleagues. Maybe you can run some tests of, you know, do me a favor, run some tests. I'm just not sure what's going on. And I felt so stupid because everything came out, quote unquote normal. I was like they're like oh you're just getting older your you have kids, you know that did it. But I knew there was more than that. I knew there's got to be some other tools that people.
Could give besides that. And I thought maybe it was my diet. I had a hunch that it was a little bit about my stress levels because I was chronically stressed. But honestly in our culture, we wear burnout and fatigue like a badge of honor that I thought I was doing all the right stuff because I was burned out. And so when I started looking into it circadian, rhythms got Health Hormone Health, this all kept coming up in my research. So when you look at you,
What can you do to improve your energy? And I think I hear people talking about eating healthy but I didn't realize that that got bacteria is actually always talking to your immune system and always talking to your hormones and always talking to your brain and that can. So what we eat can actually fight burnout or fight fatigue and I think people don't make that connection
and then I realize that when we are eating is also making a big difference in our bodies. So when I started to get into intermittent fasting, I started to think okay but I get this whole intermittent fasting thing but when are you really supposed to eat and naughty because nobody tells you that you just wasn't fast for say 16 hours. What I learned is that Nobel Prize in medicine went to the by researchers behind how circadian rhythms
Fluence, our biology. And what we should actually be doing is fasting when our bodies need to rest, meaning our gut bacteria are sell our every cell in our body. And we should be eating and working and, you know, seeing light during other hours. And it's not just in our brain. It's not about sleep. It's about metabolism. It's about longevity. It's about
Feeling good, performing well. So I was like, this is a no-brainer. I mean, I don't understand why I never knew about this. So I really just very simple steps. Started cleaning up my routine, my nighttime routine, and my daytime morning routine. And I started to see a big difference in my energy. I mean, we can all anecdotally. Say when you spend more time in nature, you just feel better, but I had no idea what what the gravity of the change would be. So I started to clean up my morning routine -
Nighttime routine. And then I started to do this kind of circadian style intermittent fasting. And that's how I really started to build my plan because once I found stuff that was starting to work for me, I started to try it on other people and then that's why I wrote the book because I thought these are really easy, things that all of us could be doing every single day. And you can, there's no reason you can't fast more, you know, you can add in longer fast, but really doing a simple overnight.
Fast is a great starting point for most people who are feeling tired or Bernal
and most people already do that anyway. Yeah, while they're
sleeping. Exactly. So you're really adding the crazy thing is Max that people eat 16 hours a day. If you look at the data, we're eating 15 1/2, 16 hours a day because of this food addiction that we have the metabolic the broken metabolism. You know, these companies that hijack our brains were craving were eating. So we're literally only taking a break for it.
Ours. So even if we increase that break to 13, 14 15 hours, we're doing a big service to our bodies. And so this is something that should be a part of our normal cultures, not deprivation. It's not a fad, it's not, you know, a trigger for, you know, other like eating issues, of course, because we live in diet culture. If there is someone who's dealing with eating disorders, I do have to say, any of these things, could be a trigger, so please don't try anything.
Anything. If you feel triggered by something like even an overnight fast you know you have to heal yourself first before you kind of go into that but other than that I think every single other person can do and easy overnight fast for you know, 12 hours sounds like nothing. But it's a big change from the 16 hours that you're eating on a daily basis. So little things like that like I realized. Wow. I usually I thought I have to eat every two hours to keep my metabolism.
I'm going and I would be all the way till the time I went to bed and then roll out of bed and start eating, because I thought I have to get it going. But I realized that, that was the rock opposite of what you should be doing.
Has that been concussed? That has that concept been conclusively? Put to bed at this point, that you don't need to eat every 2 to 3 hours to.
It's still something that trainers. Tell their, I see people all the time. Getting that advice from trainers. Because in our, in our
World, we are always talking about grow and, you know, more muscle and more growth. So if you're trying to get more muscle or get better, then yeah, you should be spiking your insulin every two hours, right? So you could become a bodybuilder and not eat any bad foods and maybe grow the muscle selectively, but you're also growing fat cells, right? So for the common person who is just working out and working with the trainer the eating two hours, every two hours a day,
Is horrible advice, especially when they are already metabolically challenged in other ways. So,
that's super interesting. Have you I'm assuming you've been to Vegas at some point in your life, it's it's amazing when you walk through the catacombs. Sometimes of those Resorts, you know, in the in the mall areas your you have you have no concept of time. Yeah. Like in those environments, right? They purposely do that? Yeah, the purpose of do that so that you feel the same degree of energy whether it's noon or four in the morning and I feel like that's
It's a good metaphor for how our brains must feel and our bodies must feel, you know, the organs of metabolism must feel today, you know, in this, in this kind of food environment, where and this, and this light environment where we're just not receiving cues properly in accordance with, you know, ancestral, you know, biology.
Yeah. It's like being hungover. I mean, you know, that feeling, have you ever been hungover, you know, that feeling of a few
times you asked me? Yeah, many times
that feeling.
Of you feel exhausted but it's more than exhaustion. It's like this brain fog and it's this moodiness and it's these. Like there's all this other stuff going on besides just feeling tired. That's how our bodies feel. All the time were jet-lagged. And we're feeling exhausted because the crazy thing is at night. Our body is even more sensitive to light and food because they're trying to figure out like, okay, should I stay up? Is there an emergency? Is he running?
Away from some danger because it has to stay hyper-vigilant if that's the case. And when we're blasting ourselves with blue light and eating and do all kinds of things, the body's registering that. Okay, we need to stay up because there's something bad repair and renewal is paused, and we do not turn on those jeans because we're thinking that the body needs to stay awake because we need to run away. There's some kind of emergency situation, so we're really short.
Changing our repair, renewal processes. When we're doing all of this and I always say like, if they're smart entrepreneurs, these tech people. Can't we figure out ways to actually
change technology like in the last 10 years that's when we've all been doing all these bad things. I hope that in the next 10 years, we can figure out ways to decrease amount of blue light. We get at night and maybe increase the amount of natural light. We get during the day so that we can actually take control of our bodies and get more energy and like not shortchange ourselves and accelerate disease, right?
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, we have like, the night shift settings on our phones, right? Which
Told me that it's actually not that effective although it feels effective because the minute you take it off night mode, you're
like, oh my God, it's so bright
so I use that. But you know, so I feel like that does that's like sort of a, you know, a halfway measure. I wish my TV would do that as well. I don't know why big TV manufacturers.
Haven't, they should do that. And then the other thing is ambient light in the room. So I didn't know that, you know, having ambient light in the room, is really a metabolism kill.
Or so, they had in a weight-loss studies. They've got very well established that people that sleep with ambient light, have more trouble losing weight and they do diet studies and people who sleep in a dark black out room for me. It's like, that's the easiest measure. I mean, it's free for most people. You could wear or very inexpensive. You could wear a face mask or eye mask. These are things, I mean, we're trying all these diet pills and all these shortcuts like, why not do things that are actually.
Hundred percent effective in helping you lose weight, or help your
metabolism. I agree, guys, if you need a good eye mask, we make them Shameless plug for genius life, merch, a genius life.com. We have my mess. No. But someone I want to ask you a question because this came up my assistant Sydney. Ask me this recently about blackout curtains, so I love blackout curtains. But when you wake up, the thing that I don't like about blackout curtains, is that it keeps the room Pitch Black
In the morning you know? And I would much rather wake up with the sun. Yeah. You know so that you get that light in the morning as you're supposed to as our ancestor, you know, our ancestors arose with the rising of the sun. Right. So our blackout curtains would you would you recommend them or do you think that there's like a better way to do this? Maybe, I don't
know. I think if we could think of a technology I mean we have so many cool people listening to this and if they cook, there should be curtains. That just
Ugly sense, light and opened, right? I agree with that. That would be so amazing. That would be amazing. So, what I do is I wear an eye mask, but the basic deal is that once you decide your nightly routine, and you decide on the hours that you want to sleep, try not to have that alarm blaring alarm waking you up. I mean, I know it's so hard for most people to do, but I think if you start at least a few nights a week, if you're able
To sleep in a dark room and then wake up naturally. And then immediately, or shortly thereafter, go get some sunlight you're in good shape. So what I do on most mornings as a part of this whole journey that I was on, I wake up in the morning and I literally go brush my teeth. I do kind of a little bit of you know wash up change into my workout clothes and then I step outside and I get the
Sunlight. So the sunlight you get through a window is 5 times less than what you would get in natural even on a cloudy day. So you really do want that direct light. So we're talking about 10,000 Lux, even on a cloudy day and a hundred thousand Lux on a sunny day, whereas a light gives you 1 2. Mm. Looks so turning on your lights in your room. Feels like oh I'm waking up but it's really that natural light that you need expose. You could be a minute you.
Just go outside for me often times when I'm in a rush and a literally outside for a minute. I get my sunlight. I do a little self-reflection and then I'm off and so, you know, ideally on days, I'm off. I do a workout outdoors. I mean, that's the best, right? You feel like a million bucks after that and then break my fast. But then a lot of times and that's what I did during the pandemic but then now the gyms are open, some outdoor spaces are open, then doing a facet workout and then breaking your fast is
That I think has really been transformative in my energy levels.
Hey guys, I wanted to take a quick break from this episode to ask you a few important questions. Do you feel like nutrition is way too complicated and you're confused by what you should and shouldn't be eating. Are you fed up with following fad diets? And not seeing the results you want. And if you spend way too much money on fancy health foods and supplements at don't actually work. Well, if you answered yes, to any, of these questions, you're going to love what I have in the works. Launching on June 2nd. I'm bringing you the genius life.
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Of our fasting window and, you know, compressing their feeding window for most people, it's about 16 hours, which is insane and you're saying, just make it 12 hours. Yeah. So how do you kind of Orient your day then around
that? So, two to three hours before bed. Stop eating. That's kind of the big hard stop. You don't have to do it every day. I usually on the weekends, spend time with friends or family, and you're eating late into the night, and that's okay. You don't have to make this an all-or-nothing thing.
NG because there's something to be said about social connections, as we know this quarter, but on weekdays a really make a very, very boundary driven effort to end my meals, two to three hours before bed. And then so this is good for shift workers. Some people ask me? Well, I don't get home. Till you know, midnight, whatever bedtime is for you. If you can work backwards, ideally that would be sometime after Sundown, you
If you really want to go ancestral and biologically, absolutely correct. You probably want to do it sometime after Sundown and then fast overnight and in the morning, if you can do a fasted work out in nature, that would be ideal because then you're getting that blast of sunlight into your retina, which goes to your suprachiasmatic nucleus, which fine-tunes, all the cells in your body to say, like, okay, its morning time, time to do metabolism time to, to
Being complex tasks when we're not getting that. We're always feeling kind of like down. Like, that's why you need your coffee and your energy drinks, because we're completely off. So then you do the facet work out, one of the big advantages of a facet workout is you can deplete your glucose. So
Most people in America are completely dependent on simple sugars as their fuel, right? And even if you're not, but you still have a good amount of simple sugars, like stored in your liver. So say you ate a pasta dinner, you're going to be burning that pasta all night long and even in the morning, probably halfway through your workout you're still burning that pasta, right? But if you have a pretty low price,
The sugar process carbohydrate diet and you sleep overnight and you're doing a facet faceted fast two to three hours before bed. You're going to deplete a lot of that blood glucose and then your body is going to dip into the liver stores. And once you kind of dip into your liver stores and you go for a workout, then your body is going to have to start to look for alternative sources of fuel and that back-and-forth switch between using sugar for fuel and using fat for fuel.
Is the magic of intermittent fasting. So dr. Mattson and the New England Journal of Medicine study. That came out in 2019, basically said it's not just about caloric restriction, because we know caloric, restriction can be good for people longevity metabolism. This is more than that, there is things that are happening. And when the metal box, which happens that's when be Dean bdnf goes up. That's when you see all these anti-inflammatory benefits, you see all these Downstream effects similar to
That is like you know exercise it's not about just, you know, the muscle, that's the benefit. There's all these Global benefits and that happens when you metabolically switch. So, the concept that I take is, we don't know. We can't tell when you metabolically switch because you're doing it so rapidly back and forth. So one of the things I actually ask people to do is if you are comfortable with doing an overnight fast and stretch it, a little bit by doing a workout which rapidly uses up the stored.
Gose. And then you're going to dip into that metabolic switch Zone, which is the magic and then you break your fast and you go on with your day.
Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about any potential downsides of fasting? Because we've talked quite a bit about fasting as of late on the podcast. And, you know, I really value, you know, the time and vigor that you've put into your research and, and we haven't really talked about any potential downsides in the past.
But you know, you also being a woman and can bring a new voice to this.
Are there any you know, considerations that women need to have? Because I mean I'm sure that you know this and I'd be curious to know your thoughts as to why this is. But most of the research on fasting and humans, the clinical research is done in men, right? Or postmenopausal women, yes. So far premenopausal women that are listening like what are there any potential? Downsides to this.
There's lots. Okay, but I max out what people to think of it. Like they think of exercise there are risks to exercise, right? You don't want to be running a truck.
You know, ultramarathon not everybody can do that. And so same thing with fasting, not everybody wants or can do a three day, water fast or a five-day, you know, water fast. So that being said, you would never ever tell a woman, you shouldn't exercise because, oh, yeah. There's this extreme form that could actually turn off fertility. That's exactly. Like, intermittent fasting. Like you're actually confusing people and shortchanging people, those experts who say, oh, women
Should not fast because that to people as now confusing now they're like, oh wait, I should go back to 16 hours a day eating because that was like better for me, but that's a disordered eating, right? So the consideration that I tell people women of childbearing age is that you are wired differently than men and this is a fact. We are reproductive creatures and what our
He does to protect reproduction, is to shut off the ovulatory cycle when it senses a lot of stress. And that can be from mental stress. That can be from famine, you know, you don't want to give birth during a famine or a time of major stress. So, female athletes know this way too. Well, they trained really hard and if they don't have a good amount of rest in between or recovery, they will lose their period.
David and fertility, you know, people who are trying to get pregnant, we'll deal with this all the time because mental stress can also Stop Those ovulatory, State Cycles, and that's what happens with fasting. If you tell your brain that you're in a famine, it will turn that off. And there is one study that people quote. It is a 6 Mouse study. So very tiny study, where they had mice fasting, women, female, mice,
Seeing every other day for 12 weeks and they found that there was an effect on the ovaries and reproduction. But remember, mice are so different than humans. Their metabolism is six times our metabolism. So for them fasting, for 24 hours every other day, that's like us fasting for six days. Wow. So this is not the same, you can't equate it. Yeah, if I fasted for six days in a row and it and did that for, you know,
months on end, I will definitely do a number on my hormones and many other things. So, that's, I think the real big take home messages, you can fast just take it, easy, do not go deep and aggressive when you first start because some people can and many women will text me, message me and say, I do great, you know, I do the same thing as my boyfriend or husband and they're doing great but not everyone, and
Many women will notice that when they try to even do a 16 hour fast every single day off the bat, they're going to get hormonal effects and I definitely felt that. That way I started I saw somebody talking about fasting the research else. Like I'm all in, like I'm going to get an A-Plus so I started doing it every single day and literally by day three, I felt fatigued. I felt like my sleep was Disturbed, I felt like my Cravings were on fire and what luckily, I pulled back because I knew that
that something wasn't right but some people keep going with it and they really damaged their metabolism and their hormones in the long term.
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And yeah, so good. Anyway, check them out. They're awesome. And now back to the remainder of my chat with dr. Shaw, I really love that you brought sort of X, you know? You brought exercise into the equation which is another form of hormesis, right? Hormesis. Which is, of course, beneficial stress. Yes. And it's up to each person men and women right to figure out where that line is for them. Right? Yeah. We're a stressor becomes too much stress.
So, you know, you gotta walk that tightrope and discover for yourself, you know, at what point like, where that stress is actually causing you to adapt in a beneficial way. And also, you know, where it becomes counterproductive, where becomes too
stressful. Well, that's exactly how Exercise Works, right? When I was really burned out, I was skipping on my sleep and I had a lot of emotional stress and like, stress at work. And I would try to do these hard workouts early in the
Nate. And I was really short changing my results. I was like, I don't know. I feel like I'm getting like, less and shape and it was because I had so much Baseline stress and I was just adding fuel to the fire, you know? And so I talked about that in the book, really, if you are in place of burnout and major stress, that's not the time to be doing aggressive workouts, whatever aggressive means for you. That's the time to pull back. Maybe do some more nature-based, walks or yo.
Agha. And then get yourself in a better place, which shouldn't take too long and then add those back in. So, the same thing hormetic, stressors are supposed to be good for you, but only if they're intermittent and they can't be constant. And they can't have the volume turned on Max because you can't add on other hermetic stressors that.
Yeah, I mean fasting exercise. Sauna Coldwater, immersion, exactly, you know, sun exposure. Yes. Good for us in part because it's a sort of form of hormetic stress and then you throw coffee into the
X, right, and then you throw psychological stress. You throw Panic porn on the media. You throw all
the that Panic porn. Yeah, I heard that
concept. I mean, it's so true but you throw that all into the soup and suddenly you've got hello burnout and you're wondering
why a hundred percent. That's that's basically what happens and we don't ever talk about it. Like hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing all of those things at once. Get control over your Baseline stress and then start adding in hermetic stressors selectively and I think in the
The biohacking world, we kind of had a lot of people try to do a million things at once and then we talked about it offline. But you know, taking antioxidants actually is bad for you. Because it's, it's really, there's a very fine balance that our body needs with antioxidants in our body and adding more is just throwing that off. So just using these tools and understanding that they're really great all on their own, but maybe not in combination and maybe
Need to try everything that's available to you and being a little more selective. So what I do is try to stay in The Crossroads of scientific evidence, you know, ancient practices and nutritional therapies. So that it's, you know, it doesn't mean that I'm always Bound by the literature, but at least it's signs informed. And so, we're trying things that are, you know, things that we know will,
To help us. But maybe there's not a huge randomized, controlled trial about it, but we are informed about how it works. Instead of doing the million things that we could be do. And we me and you are both in the wellness space. We could literally be doing a hundred things a day and some of us are and I just feel like the more I know, the more I realize that you have to be selective with what you decide to do with your time and energy
couldn't agree more. What about fasting and thyroid function does fasting suppress.
The
thyroid. So same thing as exercise, right? Yes, it can. If you do it in extreme amounts, but no, it won't. If you are doing a simple overnight fast and, of course, you know, people with really labile thyroid people with really labile insulin and glucose levels. They definitely have to work with someone because you don't want to be throwing all these hormetic stressors, even if it's a short one, without
One kind of monitoring your levels, but it's something that's very, very doable with any kind of hormonal issue, as long as that Baseline hormone issues fixed or you're getting treated for it. So that you're not throwing in a hormonal stressor, which is a hermetic stressors. Not throwing that into the mix when you're still dealing with another one.
Yeah. So you mentioned people with that are prone to maybe disordered eating should definitely check with their you know their health care provider but also people that have
You know why like type 2 diabetes, things like that if
you're on exogenous insulin or you know, because this could really throw off your blood sugar levels and bring them down, which is a good thing for most people. But if you're trying to figure out how much insulin you should be taking, this is something you need to work with the practitioner someone who's pregnant. Breastfeeding a lot of women contact me because they're like, oh, I'm pregnant, you know, 20 weeks which and I'm like, this is not the time to experiment.
Moment with a fast because maybe you'll get it right. Maybe you won't get it right? But you don't want to be playing around during this time. Go ahead and eat the way you normally do and then when you are ready, then that's a time of self-experimentation you and I both just talked about it. Like everybody has different thresholds for what stress is for them. So you might be able to run a marathon but I won't or I'll need two years of training to get there.
So that's not the time to experiment when and same with children. Those are the kind of the groups that shouldn't be doing it.
Yeah. So when do you have your first meal in a day
typically? Okay, so I'm a breakfast fan. So unlike most intermittent fasters I eat breakfast. This is delayed. And the reason why is that there's a big breakfast study that really clearly show that the earlier your meals in the day, the better metabolic control you have, it makes
Sense. Right, you know, you when you eat meals earlier in the day, you have better metabolic control. So, the way I do it is that I start earlier in the evening. If I want to push my fast a little bit, I start a little bit earlier, I'll start at six or seven instead of eight and then I'll push it to the next day. And so I'm having my breakfast around 10:00 or 10:30 and so, it's still a breakfast. It's just later and it's, you know, some days. I'll push the envelope. If I feel good, I'll go
Going. But I don't believe that you should be having your biggest meal at the end of the day. It's that's a cultural thing that we've built. That's actually not beneficial for our bodies. If you infuse glucose into your bloodstream and there's very good studies that show, you will be able to control your blood glucose levels until about eight o'clock. And then the same amount of glucose infusion causes blood sugar spikes, all throughout the evening.
Evening. And so what you're doing is, if you're having a huge load of food late at night, you're basically setting yourself up for metabolic disease. Wow,
that's shock. Yeah. Right. It's crazy. And if you were going to eat a late-night meal, would you say that it's then oral or have a late night snack? Yeah. Say that then the best foods to reach for or ones that are lower
in glycemic index. Yeah, you really want to reach for the nuts or you know, there's something that is not going to give you that insolent.
Regulation because they're just better able to handle it during the
day. I know a lot of people like, like some almond butter before bed or
something. That's actually actually when I train people to fast often because we're so used to eating all the time. It's really hard to get to bed if you haven't had something in your stomach. So one of the tricks I tell is like, if you can have a little bit of fat, even just 40 calories, that might hold you over for the night and it'll keep you in that. Metabolic
Ugly fasting zone. I'm not talking about like a thousands of calories of fat. I'm just saying a little touch of almond butter or coconut butter.
Hmm, I like that. Yeah and so you're like a 1030 10 a.m. 10:30 breakfast eater what are you eating? What's that first meal consists of for you so you sure I'm getting granular. Yeah, I don't know everything about your team.
Yeah. So at in the morning I'm usually post workout at that point and I love
I try and I talked about, I had no idea when I was growing up, but there's a lot of medicinal compounds that happen in ayurveda that we have now found in all this literature to be the most anti inflammatory foods on the planet and them. So things like ginger cardamom, you know, cinnamon are really amazing. I mean they could be a billion-dollar drugs. So I have a chili with those spices every day and then I usually have something with five.
Fiber and protein, because I'm having it post-workout. So that's a nighttime, my protein to be right after the workout because that's where you can use it. Most efficient efficiently, you can build lean muscle. And so I have it usually either, it's a smoothie because I'm on the run or it's a so I say there's 4S has a smoothie, a scramble a salad, or soup or the four options that I usually reach. For that have high fiber that can have protein
sources, right? The 4S is weights,
Once again, the 4S is of how to break your
fast.
Soup.
Scramble.
Smoothie or Salad, I love those. Yeah, like all fours. Like, you can choose that as ways to break your fast at any time of the day and don't be shy about having a non breakfast food for breakfast. I think that was something that I had to, like, break this mental barrier. I can't be eating a salad or like, I can't be having a soup at 10:30 in the morning but it's really fine. You will, you will
survive. You know what, I broke my past with today. What did you think? A ribeye awesome. Yeah. What time was that? Because one day, we're going to be dead.
Right? So you got to enjoy life. All right, thank God. And I had it
started with a cupcake. That's all I ask because what ends up happening a lot when I was in training, I fasted by mistake a lot, you know, in my medical training and then I would come home and I'd be so hungry. And while I was trying to make the food that I was supposed to eat, I would be snacking on chips and I would have cookies and I would have all this sweet, you know, fun Foods because you're so starving. And by the time the real meal would arrive. I would all
already have eaten like a thousand calories of very unhealthy stuff and that's how a lot of people when they accidentally facile eat a whole pizza, you know, at the end of it. And so you can't out fast, you know, just like you can't outrun your bad diet. So people will say it like I've been fasting, but I don't feel very good but because what are you eating? When you break your fast are you having you know ten Twinkies to break your fast? And that's why you feel awful. You
You can't just use that as your soul treatment and some people have a couple of doctors actually said to me, you know, this whole fasting thing doesn't work because there's a trial that just came out in Jama and they took obese people. And they asked them to fast, but not change their diet and they saw that, they were able to out eat their, their intermittent fasting. So the intermittent fasting intervention, help them, but not
Significantly different than the traditional eating pattern. But as you know, with obesity and with how foods have hijacked our minds, you can literally eat 4,000 calories even if you were had a truncated amount of time pretty easily in our culture, right? So you have to take that into account that these are obese like we know that there's lots of disordered eating but definitely in certain populations.
And if you take those populations and you say, well, sorry you can't eat all day, but you can only eat for, you know, eight hours. They can easily eat all of that bad stuff in those eight hours. So I do say that you can't just use it as your sole technique, but if you stick to the 4S has eating a Clean Diet, you are working on your Baseline stress that hormetic stress or can do wonders for you.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've done some Instagram posts where I show people the cow.
Every density of modern, you know, whether it's ultra-processed convenience Foods or fast food, but you can easily get 2,000 calories in like a small, like a burger and fries. Yeah, that you eat and you're still
hungry. And and I used to, when I used to come home from a long day of work, and I would snack in my kitchen, I started realizing how much food I was consuming because it seems so easy to eat, chips and salsa, or hummus, and guac, and whatever. And
These seemingly kind of healthy foods like guacamoles, help you, but you're eating it with chips and I was literally consuming my whole dinners worth of calories in my snack that I was using as my pre-dinner snack. So, that's the problem with our, like, our society. We need to reprogram our brains because we're literally hijacked by all of these Pathways, the dopamine and the serotonin and the Gaba. All these brain Pathways that
Food is supposed to trigger where we're programmed, but these are, these are volume levels on Max, when we're supposed to see them naturally. At very low levels, in
nature, as our diets, fill all the time, right? Because people are trying to moderate their consumption of these foods which there's just no way that you're gonna be able to do that for the long term.
Absolutely. And that's why you have to change the quality of your diet. It's not necessarily that a calorie, you know.
Course a calorie does equal a calorie when you measure in the lab. But in our bodies certain calories, certain foods trigger these Pathways, these addiction Pathways, these neurotransmitter Pathways that. Now, we're even finding in the gut. So even when your gut bacteria recognizes it in the in your colon, they are triggering Pathways because you know, there sir tonin made in our gut. There's all kinds of signals that we're sending to our brain. So we have to
I realize that some foods will falsely trigger these Pathways that make us feel good. Make us feel addicted and we have to change the quality in our dependence on these foods to be able to get away from them.
Couldn't agree more the fewer, the ingredients? The better.
Yeah. And it's hard because, you know, broccoli just isn't me to taste as intensely flavorful as a burger or as a
You know, shake from Shake Shack or whatever, but it's because you're supposed to get these signals in very you're supposed to feel full after you eat a plate of broccoli. You're not going to feel full when you eat a plate of Doritos.
Yeah, they're minimally satiating. Yeah, I used to go through bags of
Doritos. Yeah, and I did too because back in the day when I was growing up it was like this very, very, like special food. My parents would only buy it like if people were coming over and
So, I would like Park myself right next to the bolt big bowl, and it was just my favorite food. I haven't had it in years.
Were you raised with it because you said that you were born in India where you raised with, like a traditional Indian diet, or what was, what was
that when I was in India? It was super traditional. I mean this is like we I took they start school really early like H2. I took this like horse buggy, Carriage to school and there was this community that all the kids would play together and
Is very traditional, the foods are very traditional and really natural. Lots of outdoor play. Lots of community, lots of walking. And then when my parents moved here, of course you're assimilating. They both worked insane hours and my grandmother who are sorry, which was like, so embarrassing to me would like drop me off the bus stop or whatever. And then everything changed, right? Our diet changed, the lifestyle changed the amount of community,
He changed and it wasn't very, it was about a few years after that, my dad was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Something that ran runs rampant in our in our family history but it happened to him in his 30s. I mean I was like five years old and so looking back at it, I'm like oh it all makes sense, right? Because he came here, he wasn't moving, he's working a desk job at insane hours. He was getting his, he was going to business school, you know, and off hours we would eat Pizza Hut and Taco Bell because
We wanted to feel like, you know, American and then it wasn't until I went into college and started to learn nutrition. That I was like, oh I get it now. I get why everybody is getting so sick because we totally change the way we eat. And so when I now I came back to and I was like, wow, there's an anti-inflammatory index in the literature that has been validated with over a thousand studies that ranks Foods. The most anti-inflammatory,
And the top foods are T, fiber, phytochemicals. And then the spices, turmeric ginger garlic pepper. So if you think about it, these traditional diet they had all the things that they needed to have all around the world, you know, Mediterranean Asia. But now we basically lost almost all aspects of that anti-inflammatory.
It's insane. And you've probably you probably at the time also traded really healthful traditional fats that your ancestors used for Generations like Gigi. Yeah, exactly corn
oil like canola and it was it's such a sad State because now if you look at modern Indian food it is full of trans fats and poor seed oils and Hyper refined flours and
And sugar because you know, just as we've evolved our food supply, they have to and the tastes have changed because now there's Coke and Pepsi and there's Doritos there too. So now people want more flavorful Foods just like us, you know, if I go back and I have my coffee order from even 10 years ago, it's like, I can't even have it. It's so sweet and so. But at that time, I didn't think anything of it. I thought it was
I didn't think it was too sweet at all, you know, because we're so used to that
these coffee drinks. Some of them hundreds of calories,
hundreds of my son is 13 and he's just getting to the age where he's like asking for soda or fruit drinks. And I have showed him the amount of sugar that's in one even like healthy, you know, real cane sugar 36 grams, you know, in one serving or 40 grams I'm
Like you could eat an entire brownie or more for that 40 grams and so he's like, oh yeah, I'd rather eat a brownie that you know,
like yeah, at least a brownie has like some degree of like a satiety inducing effect. Whereas like these these drinks, like they just
don't, they don't even feel like you're eating a dessert. You just feel like, oh, this is just normal. And so teaching them really young, about the things that we never learned about is super important, to me to say, Hey guys, you're being, I literally tell him, I'm like,
Your brain has been hijacked by these companies and you have to unlearn that you have to remember that in nature. You're supposed to detect sweet and, you know, salty and savory but the signals have been turned out and so high that now, you have to turn it down again and you got to remember that. There's, there's no way you're going to like real food if you are chronically eating this hyper processed food.
Yeah, I made a post recently on social media.
Talking about how a good parent tries to dissuade. That's it was a very uncontroversial statement. It sounds ridiculous that I'm even bring it up, but like I was like a good parent should dissuade their children from eating this Ultra processed junk. I'm not saying like restrict them. Yeah, you know, because that's what my mom did for me. Yeah, my mom was like, Mom. There was a, my mom clearly delineated for me in my little brain at the time. What was going to be beneficial for my body? And what I should like, not eat as much of, like, Max don't eat all the, you know, don't eat the entire box of Pop-Tarts because I know you
Because that's something that I probably would have done. If left to my own devices, don't have the entire box of, you know, Entenmann's donuts and cookies and whatever.
What's that controversial?
Because I got some pushback from it saying that like you shouldn't ever did you know, try to dissuade your kids, you know, don't ever do that. Just like, you know, lead by example, with don't essentially don't, don't teach them that you're creating, you're creating Eating Disorders. Basically in doing that, they're, you know, kids who are brought up in homes, where they're dissuaded from eating junk food and of course, like nobody shared any like real.
Search to back up their
claims. Yeah. No, I mean there's there's definite anecdotal, you know, I know somebody when I was growing up, she her family was super healthy. Never had any snack. So she would always be rummaging in our pantry what she was come over. I mean, obviously, that goes without saying, like, if you never, let them have a birthday cake or, you know, never let them have popcorn at the movie theater. They're probably going to feel deprived, right? But it wasn't, that doesn't mean that you let them
Run rampant with processed foods. I
hate all those freaking. Yeah, I ate it all, I popped our type and junk food. I went through bags of Doritos and we had them in my house, but my mom also tried to dissuade. You know. She taught me. Yeah. Like a good empathetic rational. Yeah. Human being would do,
you know that's exactly what I was saying. About the soda thing, I think what I said to him I was like, wouldn't you rather have a dessert later like a dark chocolate or then?
Spend your sugar on something like that. Doesn't even give you any satisfaction. He was like, yeah. Actually I'd rather have fewer going to let me have a dessert later. I'd rather have that so just teaching them these kind of things doesn't mean that you're stopping them. It's not like I ripped it out of his mouth you know while he was drinking it or something like that but it's it's important to educate them because we weren't educated and look. We had to figure it out ourselves. Either most of us have were in a very dark place and had to figure it out so I was I was forgetting nutrition.
Sure, but I remember going to those conferences and they were all sponsored, I don't know if it's still the same because this 20 years ago but they were all sponsored by cereal companies and crafts and which, you know, are arguably the people the people that run the show for nutrition education and policy. So
they used to find. I don't know if they still do but they, you know, companies like that used to fund the
X
associations and it's great. I mean, it's just like medicine, right? We so much of funding comes from Pharma, so you, but the problem is, there's no such thing as a free lunch. So what they taught us in when I first got into the Harvard hospitals for my training, there was a big push back against Pharma offering free lunches. And what they said is, there's no such thing as a free lunch when you get free stuff from people and we get free stuff all the time from people.
Well, you have are mentally indebted to that to maybe speak on that or thank them in some way. And and so the Pharma industry was really, you know started they said well hey these are trainees, these are our new doctors, they are just coming out and if you are infusing, your thoughts and your items and your free lunches, then they're going to maybe make decisions that are influenced by that. And I thought that was such a
A great move by that particular hospital because, you know, Pharma runs so much of the show in medicine and they still do. And I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, because we need them to fund trials and we need them, we need them to think of Innovations for people who are like, going through cancer or whatever. But there's also something to be said about having ideas that are not influenced by big companies and forming your own opinions on things.
Couldn't agree more. I have a rule that
Of all only promote something that I will that I personally will use. Yeah but I think there's this big ethical gray area where a doctor you know is like literally getting free lunches from these companies and then you know making prescriptions to pay you know they're in there being influenced at the point of prescription. Yeah. And that's I think
unfair, it's very scary how it's you know luckily and I can attest to most of my doctor friends and colleagues, it's not
As common, as you think, I think we've done a really good job of regulating. So all these people are like, oh, I'll doctors are paid by far, mom, like, I've been paying zero dollars by Pharma throughout my entire career and I can say that safely about mostly everyone. I know there's certain there are certain sects of doctors like in the pain industry for example that do get Pharma because that's big business for them. Well pain medications and but for vast majority of
People, you're really just going on their own judgment and so, yeah, there's people who have bad judgment but that's not because they've been paid by Pharma. There's, you know, they're just they just have their views,
isn't there Anna? Is there a website where you can go and you can punch in like any doctor's name and find ya? The get. See the gifts. Yeah, they've been given thing.
Yeah. Because n doctors have to disclose if you if I ever give a talk I must disclose all of my relationships with Pharma and I think that's
It's such a great thing to do because if you're giving a talk on any particular topic, say it's about brain health or our gut health, you should know if that speaker is being paid by a certain company or is a sponsor for
something. Couldn't agree more. I, I mean, obviously people know, when I'm reading an ad, right? For my pocket. So people know, on my podcast, what is an ad and what's not? And then I also on my website, I in the about me page, I think at the
It probably needs updating but I've I go to Great Strides to let you know to keep my audience informed about like who's paying me not that and it and it never informs my opinion or my advice or anything like that but you're right. It's totally mm. I think it totally important. You know just for the sake of transparency, I took audience now
I took it to the other extreme. So when I first started an Instagram a few years ago and I got my first like really cool thing that I love and I use, I couldn't even talk about it. Authentic.
Ali. Like, I felt so I felt like I could, you know, I had to say so many times. Hey, I got this for free like this is because it will almost went to the Other Extreme where I actually use that product, but I didn't feel comfortable even talking about it because now I felt like I was the sponsor or something. Yeah, I had to relearn. Like okay, well maybe the best strategy for me is just like what you said things that I actually use authentically or would use are the only
That come into my radar and I have to feel really authentic and use it for a while. Before I can talk about it because I don't, because I really had a hard time with that because, you know, how are you supposed to this? I didn't want to sell it. And I've been, I want to be really clear that I got it for free, and then it ended up being like a negative thing. You know, like, it almost made it sound like, I didn't really like it, but I just want to tell you guys about it. It was this, it was really tough, so really being careful for me. It's very, very important.
Because what I'm trying to the message that I'm trying to spread is that most of what we can do is in our own hands and we don't want to be using these hacks and tricks in tools and foods and things as as a shortcut because it's it maybe it's nice to have but it shouldn't be your method to Madness, you know how you get healthy,
the method. Yeah. And it's also there are so many the
Majority of people. I mean, there's just so much. There's low hanging fruit, you know, for people, that that are not being paid attention to and not being catered
to and yeah, that I mean, in my book I honestly want to. Do you ever read bad reviews of your book?
Yeah, I shouldn't but I
do. Yeah, I do. I should neither's but I did in the first two weeks and some don't but there aren't many. Yeah, you know, some oh yeah. So some of my bad reviews were well there's
No secret in here. There's no, you know, there's no magic. There's nothing that I couldn't have, you know, research on my own or nothing mind-blowing because they're so used to these packaged books with like yeah, a solution that is, you know, counterintuitive or brand-new like bite on my website. That it's hard for people to think that they actually can do these things for free and there's all this research backing it but I guarantee that person is not doing
Any of these those things because they're, they're like, oh, yeah, I know about sleep or I know about circadian rhythms but tell me something. You know that I can buy or that I life shattering.
Yeah. Cause people want the shortcut. Yeah, it's like that Meme on social media. There's there's like to looks like lemonade lemonade stands. Yeah booths. Yeah one there's a banner that says it's like the easy way out, take the pill or whatever and on the other one it's like a lifestyle, change your diet and lifestyle and the line is down the block.
Look for the words for the pill.
Yeah, if you sold a pill tomorrow that was like the genius life pill. I mean, you could be a billionaire. Yeah, so do it now but I'm not,
I'm not, I'm not opposed to it. I'm not judging though because I would take the pill, I guess I could take a pill like that would give me for example. Like do you know, Aaron Alexander of the Align podcast? He's been on my show a few times. Well, he's as massive Adonis of a guy who could take a pill that would give me his body. I would take that pill
and you.
Blame people for wanting to find a magic solution that doesn't yet exist. Like, I get it. There's this Mystique of, you know, there must be some. There must be something out there that we don't know. That's, you know, under a rock somewhere and some other part of the world. And the problem is that there's a lot of people praying on that. So there's a lot of books out there. There's a lot of podcasts and people who are saying like, oh, drink this thing, and you will have Vitality of life, you know, this
A whole crazy. Celery juice thing was something that I thought was so interesting because it's not that it's bad for you, but these magical properties that come out of celery juice. Like, it was just build as Fountain of, I don't know what, but it was great marketing and it just did really well and took
off. I mean, as a metal medical doctor. You see, something like that. Are you just like rolling your
eyes? Yeah. I mean, of course. I want people to drink vegetable juice. Like I would tell you in a heartbeat if somebody's like, I want to drink celery juice on my go.
I love that but don't pretend that it can solve all your, you know, problems in your life and cure all your ills by drinking this one. Drink a day. It's just, it just caught on because it was easy. It was something that you could, you know, do an think in your mind that had all these magical properties in which, you know, placebo effect. We know it's 30%, could get some improvement, but other than that, there's really no benefit to it besides that. But that's what people want, right? See,
here's what I think about that whole thing.
And if you are the kind of person that is following somebody for nutrition advice, that claims to get their nutritional Insight from a ghost, which is what the medical medium does it? Oh, I didn't
know that.
So he's a, he claims to get his health Insight from a spirit, right? So if you're the kind of person who sees that and is like, oh that's the kind of person who can who I can use you know in my life. You're obviously a highly
A stable person, right? So already, it's filtering for people who are highly, highly suggestible, right? And these are the kinds of people who can be hypnotized, who can be like, you know, it's like that kind of personality metric. And then he tells you that you're able to. If you drink this juice every single day, which we already know the placebo, just in general, like in the general population is so powerful, then to me, it's like, yeah, these people are going to like, they're going to think that they're seeing incredible Health like gains happening, but it's like it's a very suggestible.
Elation, you know, who've already consented to getting their health information from somebody who follows a ghost so that's
hilarious. I did not know that but then there is, there are some things. I will tell you over the last few years that the placebo effect is actually beneficial. I mean, it is beneficial and all on in many cases, but for example, like manifestation, okay, mindset work. Okay, in my mind, I know that mindset work is really important and you need to bring your stress levels down, but
We're talking about crazy things that happen. When you man, if, you know, you can manifest your dreams or whatever. And I knew that not to be true. But I felt like if I subscribe to that, that, at least I would get that 30%, placebo, effect benefit, and that's 30% mindset benefit is amazing, right? So I think that there's something to be said about like, spending some time. Do we know the beneficial effects of doing gratitude and
Self-assessment and meditation and mindfulness but then you know even taking it to the next level maybe doing some manifestation or maybe some visualization, you know, athletes do visualization all the time. High performers do visualization all the time. So I I felt in that case. Well I don't know if it's going to bring me like you know, all the things all the success that
People get from it, but I'm willing to get 30%, even if it's not working. So that's, that's how I felt about the celery juice thing. I felt like, you know what? If you want to do celery juice and you think it's great for you. Great but don't like there's no signs. That says that, that's great. If you believe in, it's like believing in, you know, whatever belief system, you have like good for you, but there's really no signs back behind
you heard it here. First, folks.
Glad that we had a that we, you know, had to take it to a medical doctor, finally debunk. But this was, this has been so fun. I'm so glad to have had you on. This is amazing chat. I feel like we could keep talking. I'm just loving this. What? I know you've got a flight to catch ya. That's all I
want to hear one thing though, you were talking about how you deal with haters online. I'm so curious because I'm really gun-shy because I'm new to social media. I'm a doctor, I'm a woman. I'm a mom. Like, I have all these, like, hats that I wear. That make me a little gun.
Try from saying anything that would upset too many people because I know, I could say something to you offline, but I I do get frazzled by these people who are really out there to frazzle, you know. Yeah, to tickle your, you know, to really make you upset. Yeah. But how do you handle that? Because you put out, controversial stuff all the time or at least, it seems
like it all the time and I get I got thrown shade today. Actually, by some guy also a medical doctor actually who said something like on,
On on this person's pain, literally this happen today I'll try to recount what that. So somebody tagged me somebody posted a meme that they had created about all the diet books, my diet my book wasn't in there but it was like all these books that you know, look a little ridiculous. All in one big, it's like everything has Quito in the title, everything, you know, and and he was kind of like shitting on those on all those books and saying like is it any wonder why? So many people are confused and then somebody who I
Guess follows both of us said between you and Max Luger, who I don't even know why he thought of me because I wasn't, my book isn't wasn't in there and it's like been marketed to kill book or anything like that said, you know. I don't know who to believe you like, you were Max Luke of ear and this doctor commented saying he said something like Max is a low-carb chill or something like that. And I was like, I'm not a
low-carb, so paid by the
low-carb. Yeah, Mafia. Yeah. I love you. Yeah, I'm not at all.
But, you know, like I see something like that and it doesn't it doesn't actually affect me because I think that these, you know, I just think that they're probably just a holes, you know, like they're probably super insecure. You know, I'm not going to make any judgments about this person's life but probably unhappy in their own life, you know, maybe again, not not sure if, if this applies to him. But there's a lot of mental illness. I think, in a lot of the trolls, especially the trolls that I get ya, we tend to be these like just like over-the-top vegan, like
Like evangelos evangelos CIA not that I have anything against people who are on plant-based diet. Yeah. But people who discover me from like the explore page will come over and they tend to be 9 times out of 10. Yeah, vegan evangelists and they say the words, but it doesn't bother me at all because, like, this person's either mentally ill or this person has a really sad life. Yeah,
that's a good way to think about. It is like, really reframing it and also I think the way I think about it, I think I can say this about you. If you come from a good place a place of
A place of, you know, you don't have anything to disclose about, you know, your affiliations or why? And I do when I do, yeah. It like so if you are coming from a place of helping and authentic acidity, then you don't have to worry about what other people think, because you could be the best ripest Peach on the planet and there's going to be someone who doesn't like peaches. Right? So
yeah, there are people out there that don't like Disneyland. Yeah, there's people who
don't like Mother Mother Teresa, there's people who think that, you know, all these
He's people that you we think are just everybody would love them, Oprah, whatever it is. Yeah, anytime I say anything about Oprah, people are like, oh she's this. And she's and I always grew up thinking she was like the person that, you know, everybody loved. So we there's no one person like that. So we I do have to always remind myself on social media when you're putting yourself out there, there's going to be people who don't agree with you, but that if you're coming from a place of helping and authenticity, that it's fine.
Yeah. And also, when
People do like I also make the distinction between haters and trolls and people who are actually like constructively criticizing my work. And it's not often that, that they'll bring something to my attention that, you know, maybe I made an error or something like that, but it has happened. Yeah. And somebody has brought that up and I've changed my thing. You know, where I've taken something down, or whatever, you know, I put up a
quote one time and I didn't realize like the person who said it cuz I couldn't recognize the name. But this was really early on
On but I realize, okay, that makes sense. I need to do more research on the things, you know, even these little things that you don't even notice like, oh there's these nuances, you know, not to the point where we should be policing, everything we write because I don't, I do think there's something to be said about, I think people like it when you kind of speak authentically about things that are a little bit controversial. Obviously that's a that's a thing that people like to see as long as you're not doing it, you know, to upset too many people.
Well, but I think that if something is controversial, you should talk about it. Yeah, you know, I think that like, you know, I tweeted this the other day and this is again, I don't want it's, you know, I don't want people to think that I have this Vendetta against plant-based. Yeah, based diets. But
But there's a lot of, like fear-mongering that goes on on social media, right? Whether it's like fear-mongering against sugar or carbs or, you know, quote, unquote chemicals, or whatever. And and usually, when you do that, there's always somebody that comes out of the woodwork to defend you, no sugar or go, whatever. But for some reason like fear-mongering meat and animal animal products gets a hall pass and to me, they're the, they're among the worst fear
mongers this
What I think about interest by animal products, and I'll be honest, I think that in the future, we may be able to parse out which animal products are safe and healthy, but I think that if you look, if you look at the research that's been done and the problem is we can't parse it out, right diet. Studies nutrition studies. Are so difficult that saying that eating grass fed healthy meat, may be healthy for you is a plausible thing. But that's not something that has necessarily been.
Proven. But at but we can definitely say that processed or overly passes Dairy and meat is bad for you. So I think you could say that but to say that you my problem is I love plant-based eating, I am all about predominantly plant-based eating but I don't subscribe to being in that camp of attacking anybody like as a doctor. I'm agnostic. If you come to me and you're a carnivore, I'm good. You know, I have to treat you and I want to treat you
If you're a vegan great, I want to treat you. If your matter whatever that key do, whatever it is, you don't have to attack every single person for their belief systems and that's why I don't like pick a camp it to be it because if you pick your keto Camp you have to fight against vegans. And if you pick your vegan Camp you got to fight against. I don't really think that that's very, it's not something that makes for good TV or good podcast or a good conversation but it doesn't really
Bring anyone value when you're at the end of the show, both people are like angry, and still going to go back to doing what they do.
Anyway. Yeah, well, I think I think people should be able to decide how they want to eat. Yeah. If you want to eat plant-based. Yeah. By all means do it. You know, but your decisions I think should be influenced not by fear but ye
and you shouldn't worry that. If you're saying that plant-based is good, that if you wear like a leather tennis shoes that some people are going to call, you know, it's going to be this big.
See, like I always felt like you know, if you're doing your best and you're eating a lot of plants that should be good enough. We have like enough stress in our lives that we don't need to be pulled like policing. Everybody's you know, what they're wearing, or what they're doing or how they're eating. Yeah, you know what if you want to have sugar today and somebody sees you on you shouldn't be attacked for
that a hundred percent. I just want people to be healthier. That's it. Be the best versions of the of themselves that they can be hundred percent.
Today. And for the Long Haul.
Dr. Shaw, this was
awesome. Dad, thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.
So your book is out now. Yes, what's it? What's it called?
Its called. I'm so effing
tired. I'm so effing
tired. So Fe everyone is having tired after this year or even before this. Yeah. And we need Solutions and we need a tool kit and there's no, you know, celery juice type drink. That's going to be introduced in
there. There's no easy fix. But there are fixes that are sustainable, that are easy, that are easy. Yeah.
Yeah, this is not like a magic pill. Yeah, you know, but but yeah, definitely go and check out Amy's book. Obviously, she's a wealth of information and so compassionate, and passionate about what she's doing. Are you on? Where can people find you on social
media? Okay, so on Instagram, I'm at fasting. MD on Twitter, Facebook and Linkedin. I met Amy Shaw, MD and then the book is a time. So effing tired.com and my personal website is Amy MD, wellness.com,
love that. And where you based,
Scottsdale Arizona. Damn nice.
Yeah, cool. Well, the last question that gets asked everybody on the show dr. Charles what does it mean to you to live a genius life?
Wow, that's a great question. Living a genius. Life means making decisions putting up boundaries and living your best life based on those decisions and boundaries.
I love that beautiful succinct. This was awesome. Thanks for being here again.
And look forward to having you back. Thank you so much. It's all you guys out there in Prague castle and thank you for your time and attention. Share this episode of the show. How about your favorite quote from dr. Shaw or I tagged us both. I'm sure she'll Richard all definitely reshare it. If I see it, text me to let me know what you thought about this episode of the show. 310 2999 401 is my number and I'll catch you on the next episode. Nice.
