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this altitude. I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking the Netherlands a closer question. Now, we're just living tissue over metal endoskeleton.
Hello boys and girls ladies and germs and Kevin
Rose. Welcome to new episode of the Tim Ferriss show. But this episode is a random Show episode, Kevin. I
see you dude. Good to see you brother been too long. It
has been a little while and as I'm sitting here and I'm holding this eighty dollar Mike in a probably what is a stand that cost 15 cents to manufacture and we were laughing a little bit before recording because you mentioned that you had.
Family plan with some piece of software instead of the business plan because it saves you like three dollars a
month, right? And I always was a lot. Yeah. I was wondering like, where are
you unreasonably cheap or sensitive? Because I
still have a bunch of
stupid completely outdated, behaviors around. Saving like I mean, literally, a dollar here dollar there.
Are $20 here. Twenty dollars are those like, and the reason I'm holding this mic, is because my cable is too short to have power and this mic in this confined space at the same time. So, after six hundred episodes, maybe it's time for me to invest in a better rig.
Yeah. I mean, you have you have budget for that. I would imagine. I do have half
of all the things that I should put a little little coin into. That would be one. Is there anything?
You're pretty, you're stupidly Frugal
about. Oh, dude, there's a ton of things. Like this is the weird thing is, I think it comes down from like being raised with, not a lot of cash. And then you have a little bit more disposable income as you get older. And when you think about, like, one of the things I did, I sign up for the Spotify couples plan because there's, there's like a five pack or something in the Family Planning, but there's a, there's a special couples plan where you use just two people. And so, I did that because he saves me, like, three dollars a month.
But the other thing though, it sucks is like, then you can't tie any other accounts to any other devices. Like, for example, I have my Sonos is my account and my wife's account is in her Tesla, and then, in my Tesla's, my count. And so, like, I'll be driving around and like, it'll get switched off, because somebody turns on the Sonos or something like that. It's all because I don't want to spend an
extra $4. So now, those extra couple of accounts, so I just want to point out for people who missed it to individual Tesla's.
But at least you're saving those three dollars a month, right? Exactly.
Yeah, he's saving the three
bucks old habits, die, hard old habits, die hard, man. I mean,
why is expensive Tesla's? We've got this big and
expensive. It's okay, you're allowed to say, you know, I grew up where we would eat. We had a lot of TV dinners grown up. Oh, yes. Same. We do not have a lot of money and I became very sensitive to
Eating food, so I would say if I look back at the food poisoning or anything, bordering on food, poisoning that I've had in the last two years, I'd say, at least 50 percent of it is self-inflicted and it's from saving not wanting to throw away food and then like forgetting about some equivalent like chicken tenders or something that I got takeout. Then I eat it like 4 days past the expiration date and then I'm floored for two or three days. So stupid. Yeah, so it's
not fun.
I used to love Dinty Moore beef stew. We did a lot of tuna helper at my house, which is odd, because I've the, the Hamburger Helper was way better than that. Damn.
Tuna helper. That sounds terrible. But everyone heard there's tuna. Horrible. There
was to Napa back in the day. I hope they discontinued it because it was absolutely horrible. Sometimes my dad was like, I'll do it has better for him than hamburger or something. So, it was always, when Dad was cooking, Mama's a mama's cooking. It was like a good meal and Dad, when dad had to like, step in the kitchen. Like out came the tuna helper or Dinty Moore beef stew, or, you know, what?
That was
in the cans.
What a mess. All right, so we'll segue from outdated behaviors. We could we could do a whole episode on those. Where would you like to start? I could kick it off if you want with a bunch of books because I've been doing a lot of reading Awesome. Let's start with books and there's there's a little something for everybody here because I have been reading a lot and in some cases. It's more of a show-and-tell than reading. So I'll show you the cover of one that I think you'll.
Really like this is a book called visions of Japan and the subtitle is Kawa. Say that's Ka. Wa SE ha chaseace5127. So I'll just show the cover here. Awesome. It's a beautiful collection of woodblock prints. And some people will recognize for instance, at least one piece of art by Hokusai who has the very
And this piece of these almost fractal, like waves coming over from left to right. These Orman in boats that are coming into these huge waves and a lot of people would recognize this particular. Image. Kawa says style is very different. Specialized is mostly in landscape trees and uses snow to tremendous effect. So the assistance he had ultimately in his Workshop were
Helping with the development of the wood blocks, had to develop new techniques to accommodate the complexity of the snow. And I was introduced to this particular artist through Maria Popova who created brain picker brain pickings, which is now called the margin alien, which doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. But so it goes it's a newsletter and a site that has millions and millions of subscribers. Now. She's been on the podcast. A few times started as a
Usually male 2, I want to say, six friends at a time and it's grown into this Behemoth. She's an incredible writer and prolific prolific writer. And she had a post on cause a husky. So, that's number one. And it's almost all visual. As you can see here. It has
crazy beautiful
pieces from every era, every chapter of his life, and every possible season, and
addition in Japan. So this brought back a lot of wonderful memories. So as a coffee
table book, something
that's easy to dip in and out of that. You don't have to read start to finish. That's one. I also recently finished a book called a moral man or a moral man, depending on how you read it. And I I know that is deliberate. So it's one word. Am who are a LMAO? Which was recommended to me by Mark Plotkin. Dr. Mark Plotkin. Who's an
A botanist and expert primarily in Central and South American medicinal plants but has a fantastic podcast where he goes into one plant or set of plants per
episode. Hmm. These are like psychedelic deserve a full medicinal
like they're, they're both. So there's some psychedelics he knows those very, very well, but he'll do an entire episode on Tobacco than entire episode on cannabis than an entire episode. Which will
Include hemp and the history of hemp in the United States. He'll do an entire episode on Coca an entire episode on wine for instance and it goes back and covers the entire history from sort of day. One of human history. As we have it recorded. Fascinating show. Ya fun me, really, really
fun. I want to hear that tobacco one. I wish tobacco is better for you, and I say that because I don't I've never smoked at all, but
I have had a tobacco Infuse cocktail one time. Oh my god, dude. Those are amazing like strong that it's wrong. I was at this restaurant in San Francisco and they had taken tobacco leaves and they infused it in this Bourbon and I'm not supposed to do. This is like totally
closed. Hopefully not too much. Yeah,
and so I ordered I'm like that sounds interesting, like tobacco and fused another like, no, no, like it's real.
Tobacco leaves. Are you cool with that? And I'm like, well, I'm not smoking it, I guess, but I didn't. I laid a red, you know, obviously any form of like
Getting tobacco and use bad for you.
And so, I drank it and one cocktail and I stand up and I felt I'm gonna have my feet were sinking into the ground. I almost fell over, I was buzzed like, super high. I was like, oh my God, if you never do nicotine and then you hit that nicotine.
It's real. It can knock you on your ass and yeah, just safety notes. Oh, there's an entire book. It's a very academic and dense. So I don't recommend it necessarily, but there's an entire book and I'm going to come back to him or home.
But there's a book called something like tobacco use in South American Shamanism and it's an older book when it was published in the 70s or 80s. The author has a name along the lines of like Johan or Johann Wilbert. I want to say, I've read this entire book and tobacco use is highly prevalent across most of the Amazon. It's consumed in different ways. This is true, North America as well.
And if
you look at the ways, what do you mean by consume two different ways? Like what are the different? Like, there's a
horrible. Different means there's there smoking, but there are many different ways of smoking. There are snuffs. So you could, you have insufflations. So, inhaling tobacco, and one form or another often combined, with other things, you have
bellowing.
Tobacco, either smoke, or ground, tobacco into the anus. That's one, you have
being serious.
I'm being totally serious.
You have drinking of tobacco juice, which is is the one I wanted to mention
as in addition
to several others, very dangerous. A number of people have died in the last few years. In South America, as let's just call it psychedelic tourists who have ingested. Tobacco juice. I mean you can end up with tachycardia and then heart attacks and all sorts of issues. It's very dangerous. You can die of nicotine poisoning. So you need to be extremely
really cautious about it. Have you tried any of
these? I have
stayed away. I have experienced sort of insufflations. A lot of people now, it's trendy. I think it's actually too trendy in the sense that it can do quite a bit of damage if you're overusing it, but people listening May recognize a word called adopt pay or hop a. Some people say it with the Hopi like the Brazilian pronunciation because they don't want to sound like rapey. A lot babe, but it is a
Pulverized tobacco often mixed with other things that people will blow into their own nostril. So there's a v-shaped joined pair of tubing and you stick one end in your mouth. And you've already compressed some version of tobacco into the other side and then you blow it into your nostril and it shoots up into your
sinuses. When you say mixed with other things. What does it typically mixed with it really
depends on. It's like a it's like a cocktail. It depends on who you're purchasing it from which to
Tribe. A lot of these are of dubious origin in the sense, then many psychedelic or psychedelic related paraphernalia and compounds are spun a yarn of this incredible history of indigenous use whereas, for instance toad. So sometimes referred to as bufo the molecule and question is 5, m, EO D, Mt. 5 methoxy TMT. There's this entire story now,
Versions of a story spun about indigenous, use and there seems to be no compelling evidence that there's actual indigenous use of the bufo. Alvarius toad goes by a number of other Latin names, but the Sonoran Desert toad, there seems to be no compelling evidence. That this specific toad was used as a source of 5 m e0 by any indigenous group. And in fact, it was Ken Nelson. And amateur biochemist who is a genius in many.
Ex who ultimately through trial and error developed smoked Venom from bufo. Alvarius as one means of consuming 5 Mod empty. Now, if I move DMT is found in other things, it's found another plant species, many plant, species in different types of tree nuts. For instance. Something called you opal. There are many different sources, but I guess the point I want to make, which is a long answer, your question. Is that a lot of these?
Tobacco cocktails that are being sold to blow up your own nostril or nostrils. I don't think have any basis and Indigenous news, but sometimes it's mixed with things that are not psychotropic. I advise generally against this. I mean there are potential uses blah blah blah, but I know people who just as you can with cigarettes become addicted to not pay but because they're in Venice. And, you know, doing
Being like a yoga Wasco Retreat, and everyone's talking about how highly evolved they are, by blowing it up their nostril, instead of smoking. It. Suddenly, it's socially reinforced, and then you have people who are going through like an entire canister of this stuff every week, because they're addicted to
nicotine and it's still there. It's still proven that this is like bad for the heart and like causes cancer. Like this different delivery mechanism
doesn't get around that in any way. Right, diaby, you can you can definitely do plenty.
I don't know. There may in fact be medical applications. I'm not well enough. Versed in sort of contemporary medical applications of nicotine. I know that they're there. Almost certainly potential medical applications which would be administered in some way. That is not smoking right?
Because like lung cancer that lung cancer will kill you. Let's be clear. Yeah. I had read something around a study that was done on the nicotine patches and it was
more around heart health and there being some potential negative effects around that. But I know a lot of the bio
hacker Community least a few people that I bumped
into, they like the nicotine patches,
they'll slap it on and it's a nice little booster, you know, you take it with your coffee in the morning and it's like you don't fail or some polio. It'll let you up and it will also put you on the ground. I mean, I've experienced not being number of times. It's not my like, go to of Tuesday, wake me up or anything and I remember doing it with someone who at the time.
I am with someone who's using it. Probably I don't know 10 to 15 times a week. Someone is somewhere in that range like twice a day and he had a really high tolerance and he packed my tube with and he's also like mid 200s probably in body weight. So he packed this tube and
I blew it up my nostril and
I immediately broke out into like, a cold. Sweat room is spinning and I needed to lay on my back for like, 45 minutes. It was
Is awful. It
was absolutely terrible.
So don't take it lightly. This is a detour. We took off of Mark Plotkin check out his podcast plan of the Gods. He also wrote a book called either the or a shamans Apprentice, which is very, very good about his adventures in places like Suriname really knows his stuff. He was a protege of an incredible sort of father of ethnobotany in the United States called Richard Evans. Schulte's, who was at Harvard, I've had mark on the on the podcast before.
Canadian guy. Also runs a nonprofit called the Amazon conservation team, which does really interesting work in helping indigenous communities in particular. Not only to secure their land as protected but also to monitor it using Raspberry Pi and technology and so on because we can't enforce the boundaries and prevent poachers and illegal logging and so on there's not really much value to a place being protected if it makes any sense, but Mark recommended this book,
Look a moral Man by a guy named Eric delgadio. So Derek delgadio dlg a Udi. Oh, I recognized because there is a one man show that he did on Hulu or was available on Hulu. It was performed in New York City, with storytelling sleight-of-hand, kind of stage mentalism. Although a lot of it was just like, Brute Force, incredible memorization called in and of itself. So if anyone hasn't seen
Derrick do Gowdy has show in and of itself. Kevin. You would love this. It's awesome. It's so good. So, Derek Delgado in and of itself. I recognize the one-man show and a moral man goes into his entire life story of growing up with a single mom and then learning about magic ultimately becoming a card mechanic in illegal games, like high-stakes card games, and the whole story is really good. I was very impressed.
Pressed with the writing. So that's one. And then the last one I'll mention is a novel. It's called cock just Ka by John Crowley and it is a long book. It's I would guess I read it on Kindle but probably four to five hundred pages about a single Crow. Who basically, I don't think, I'll give away too much here by saying it's reincarnated over and over and over again and develops, the ability to communicate with humans. Mend it.
Cool book, I will warn you in advance that it takes literally 100 Pages probably to get warmed up to the point where you're like, oh, this is actually now interesting. So there's still a lot of setup involved. So be forewarned, but John Crowley is interesting to me because he wrote a book, another book that takes about 100 pages to get warmed up with called little big little comma big. And that is one of the best novels I've ever read. In my life. It leaves you in a altered.
Third state for at least left me and I know a several other people in an altered state for a few weeks after you read this book. Wow.
Wait, which one was that? Call them taking notes here very soon. It's so good.
Little big little big and I think the and Alternate subtitle or are sometimes included subtitle is like the fairies Parliament or something like that. But the pro tip with little big, it's so good. It is, I just I'm telling people in advance. It's like some heavy lifting in the beginning because you have to
Establish a bunch of context once you get to the talking fish, you'll know that you're about to turn the corner into the really wild fascinating stuff. But there is a family tree in the beginning of the paperback edition, which was given to me as gift by my brother and I put it down. I tried to read it and put it down like three times and I'm just like, why
did my brother give
this to me? Like it's not that interesting in the beginning and then when it finally turns the
Corner. You're like, oh my God, this is one of the best books I've ever read.
And wow. So you're back in. You gave up reading new books for a while.
Well, I gave up. This is like a technical point that I think is worth underscoring. I gave up and I still am giving up reading new books, meaning books that are published in this year, but I am reading books, some reading books, but John Crowley is book little big as well as call these republics many years ago.
And the reason I made that decision and policy is because I get Deluge with dozens of books a week that I don't request, they get sent to me and then you
will want you to plug them. I get the same thing, you get them in the mail like yeah and sometimes their friends, right? A very often their
friends. I mean that's like I've done six hundred episodes. It's like of those 600 people. How many of them right continuously and I books coming out a lot, right? So I can't accommodate all of
them. Even if I can
have one of them on the
podcast, if all I did was read one out of every ten books, sent to me. I would never have time to do anything else. So there's this blog post. I wrote a lot quite a while back called. I think it's like the one, finding the one decision that removes a thousand decisions, something like that. If people search in the can find it. If they go to Tim dot blog /and, new books, they'll see it because we I send that now to people. So it doesn't feel like a personalized decline role in 12 months. People don't send them books.
On December and
expected to happen. Well, I actually put I put something at the
beginning of it which was like this has been extended indefinitely. So basically if you're about to send me a book that is like sent in any new year, like forget about it, right? So it's going to be a tough sell but those are some of the books that I've been enjoying and I will probably go into. I think John Crowley has a
A collection of three part series. That is Egypt or AAE Egypt, spelled with an AE. So, I made dig into that next, but I think the book that kind of mesmerised the most people that I'm aware of, is the little big and I left something out. So, in the beginning, there's a there's a family tree, do yourself a huge favor and take a photograph of that or shit's going to get really confusing. So, take a, take a photograph. Even if it's on Kindle like take your phone out and take photographs.
The family tree because you're going to want to refer back to it, fantastic book. So that is some of my awesome information diet. At the
moment. I've got one book to mention. So go for it Peter. Tia mutual friend, obviously been on your show, a bunch. Turn me on. I actually had an episode, The of the, his podcast that Peter to
drive where he interviewed Terry
real, which is this fantastic therapist. Mainly focus on actual email therapy and issues around the male's run into and
I got invited to join a men's group with Terry. Actually, I'd never done one of these. I don't know if you've done men's group. I've reviewed immense grips with it. It's really interesting. Yeah, so I had neither and I was invited to join one of these men's groups. And essentially it is picture eight people over Zoom Terry's there as well. So you have your therapist in the room, and I never done any type of group therapy thing before I done individual therapy and couples therapy, but never group and he kicks it off by saying, aye.
Okay, we're going to go around the room and we're going to spend everyone gets 10 minutes to just tell me what's on your mind? What's going on? And there's none of this bullshit. Like, well, it took my kids out. No, that's like, no. No, what is it? Hitting you at a deep level that you are struggling with and he calls you on your bullshit, like, given such generic answers because everybody has their shit, right? Like the thing that they're they're struggling with like my spouse did this or, you know, like there could be an e slew of different things that you're running.
Into, you know, like right now for me, it's my mom's dealing with cancer. Right? So I'd like
that was the thing that I went
into and you spend those first 10, 15 minutes and it's really eye-opening. And they put you in a group of like peers that when you look around the room, you're kind of in a similar stage in life and you have these really deep conversations and one person can be, you know, got caught cheating on their wife or whatever. It may be. And you realize instantly like, oh my God, like so many people,
Actually struggle with the same things that I struggle with every single day in my head, which is nice. It's refreshing. And then the people that are having the most pain for that particular session, you do is a couple times a month to two hour long session. The he'll go deep with those people. So say, okay, you're the two people today. We're going to go deep with and then you just watch as he died sex and just ninjas around and gets them oftentimes to Tears by the end of it. And really, really goes.
Goes in deep into some of these issues that these men are bringing up. And I had never really thought about doing that, and it was really a really beautiful thing and you're very supportive. They always say, does anyone want to comment on what this person just said? And it's never about judging them or saying, well, I think you're doing this wrong. It's more like, this is how this landed on me. Is that a
rule? That was established and it is
upfront. It is a rule. There's,
there's no opinions, you can. Yeah, what are the rules?
You comment on how it landed on you and how you see it through your lens, but this is only applicable to you. You can say General supportive things. Like I thought you were really courageous for saying that thank you for sharing it with me, things like that. You can always pass at any time. So if anything makes you uncomfortable, you can always pass. There is one hundred percent. What happens in this room stays in this room. We're talking about some very crazy topics here that maybe some people haven't disclosed that to the dirt, even closest friends or Partners, right?
Right, there's all kinds of issues that I heard came up where I was just like I can't believe we're talking about this but it's nice. It's nice to know that other men are struggling with the stuff. And so that was fantastic. And I've been doing that for a few months now and it's led me to just, I don't know. There was some great insights in there that I just came away with. But then it let me actually to Terry's books as well because, you know, these are quite expensive. Kind of groups, is Terry's of, pretty sought-after, type of individual therapist. And so he has his book that he turned us on to called fear.
Intimacy, that's one of his books. Yes, Fierce intimacy, and it's gray. He reads his own audio books. It's on Audible and it's how to communicate with love and respect even when you argue. And this has been just a game changer for me. When it comes to how I can relate, how I can prevent self-sabotaging habits. Just how to deal with your partner in a way that is constructive and moving forward, and not judging and being able to know when to
Let information in and take it in and digest it and let it hit your stuff like internally. And when to know that the other person is just venting and actually is coming more from them and it's okay to put a wall up sometimes and block that information because it's where they're coming from and it shouldn't land and hit you in the wrong way. It's such a beautiful simple framework that I absolutely love. And the other thing I love about him is he was kind of a Pioneer in the space. He's not a therapist that just sits there and listens to both sides and you like it sounds like what you're saying. Is this he takes
Sides and then he's like he's like no that's fucking wrong. Like you're doing this. Like she's right here or you know like the and so you hear a lot of that happening in this conversation and I'm like finally, you know, like I like it there pick us up because sometimes I know I'm right sometimes you know, so I just found this guy to be really refreshing and probably people that are some people are laughing because they know this is a really
popular person. I first I had heard of them was a six months ago, but he's a very famous therapist.
But anyway, highly recommend Fierce intimacy dark and I both listen.
Him, my wife and I both listen to it and it's already improved the way that we communicate with each other. The way we have conversations the way we let information flow in and actually land on us. So I put it in there in terms of books to recommend. How long is that book? I did it on Audible. So I think it was like, 7 hours or something
like that. Yes. It's probably like 250 Pages, something like that. Yes, pretty. They're pretty easy. Do you think you have found it helpful? Because you are also in the group. Or is it, do you think it's effective as a standalone?
The book. Absolutely. Because Daria listen to not being in the group
obviously and she found it effective as a standalone as well. And the reason I like it is it just doesn't dance
around this like we always have to
be head over heels in love. It's like you every single day that you wake up. One person might be up. One person might be down, and it's always about finding your way back to that middle safe, like comfort zone and relationships are nothing, but you have these moments of
All things and Bliss happening, but largely, it's about the other points. Right? And like now you get back, love those States. Yeah. And returning back to that state of health, in understanding and how to both know that you're on the same team and have the same goals in mind and working with a framework that supports that. So, I don't know. I really loved it. That's really struggled. I listen to a couple other relationship books because, you know, I'm always trying to improve. I've been married, nine years now. And during it, I know a really good place now, but you know me, Tim, we've had these conversations like one.
One with, there's bombs with all these relationships, right? And it's like, you know, Daria and I had to did couples therapy for a bit, especially when you introduce kids into the equation. My God, that changes everything. And so it's like this is the first time I read a book where I was like this. This is
speaking to me and working. So one of those great, that's a big deal.
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You know, I have
considered men's groups a number of times. I think I probably have on one hand like an unfair judgment. Although I've seen this before, it's so it's not totally, I've had like some men's groups. Like. Alright, we're going to go in the woods and like wear Furs and bang on drums and like, yell and scream. And I'm like, uh, not
sure that's the
medicine I need right now. And then, you know, I've had some misgivings at different points, but the kind of meta-commentary
Sorry that I would make and this has been a conversation and it's a conversation. I've had actually with quite a few women because I've just observed that
women I think
are in general again. I'm painting with a broad brush but better at kind of social cohesion and Gathering and that type of communal intimacy and there are very few places.
Aces, you know, outside of like a sports team or the bar or fill in the blank option. See where men have those communal experiences. But if you look back at our just history, right? If we look back, hundreds of years, thousands of years, that was an inbuilt feature of different communities, and I think that Society at large ends up in a very precarious
Volatile situation. When men, especially younger men don't have that, right? It's like okay, if you have somebody who is feeling alienated, who is pumped full of hormones. Like, let's just say, like, kind of 16 to 22, right? With no sense of social belonging and a lot of physiologically driven or at least informed aggression like that is
A significant societal problem, right? Yes, and I have thought about
that. The other thing I do I'll add on top of that is, you know, traditionally when you think about men getting together and shooting the shit, it is that bar setting is it sports game? It Whatever may be and it's very high level, right? Like, at that point. You're just like, I have things like. Yeah, you know, why it's doing this blah blah. You don't have the permission really like in my group. I was like, my mom had her cancer returned. I'm going to miss her.
When she's gone because I have a little boy. I will miss the feeling of my head on her shoulder stuff, that I'm just like, so deep and intimate to me because I love her so deeply. Yeah, you don't get that over a beer necessarily to be able to go and to see other men around the table doing the same thing because we all at that point have set the ground rules. It's a safe space. We can just really, really let it out and lots of tears come and one of the things Terry always says, it's really interesting during it.
People start to cry, mental start to cry and tears will slip skirt. And he goes, what are those tears saying? What are those tears saying right now? Give me more. Give me a more open that door a little bit further than you're comfortable opening up like you. Yeah, I triggered something. Here come the tears will impact that further and then it just goes from there and it's deeper and deeper layers and its release, man. I mean, you know how this is psychedelics help with this a lot when I do my high-dose mushroom experience. I was sobbing after the, you know, because my father passed away.
Gave me that permission to let that stuff go. And it's a very special thing when you can do it because it's so healthy. I'd love to actually
ask you because you can probably correct or at least inform my initial impression. So I listen to that episode on Peters podcast or listen to the first half. So maybe I didn't give it enough time. I listened to the first half and other people, I know have listen to that episode and immediately bought a bunch of books.
So I may be peculiar in this way, but I listened to the first half and he seemed my impression was that Terry had a real axe to grind, maybe on masculine strength if this makes any sense, so, we talked a lot about like toxic masculinity. Okay, fine talked about sort of the counterparts to that. And it seems like he didn't grow up with say a kind of healthy interaction with exemplars of male strength, right? Didn't seem
I have this like the sports background like he mentions his dad wanted him to be this like jocular athletic kid, and he wasn't that but I came away feeling that he had maybe very partial view of masculine strength. And I think it's I do feel like it is a mistake and it's also kind of conformist groupthink to automatically like exercise.
Male strength from like the topics that we can discuss is important. That I do think there's a place for that. So I'd be, I'd just be curious to hear your thoughts because my impression and listening to the first half. I was like, oh, wow. This guy's like Rah kind of feminine energy. The future is feminine. That's fine. But if it's to the exclusion of trying to cultivate strength in men, even if that does look on some level traditional even cross-culturally, I mean, we see certain sort of typifies.
Behaviors not saying they're all good. Like, all things in excess
can become sort of the opposite of what we're aiming for. How would you speak to that? Because that was that turned me off and it probably says more about me than a about
Terry, but it's actually it's a funny you should mention that. Because when I listen to that episode, I immediately thought. I don't want to go any further here. It wasn't necessarily for me either, but I trust Peter, right? And yeah, and I know that Peter, I know.
At Peter's a very masculine, dude. Yeah. I mean I watch videos of him shooting
his bow out of his house like the
backyard from the center of his house. I'm like who shoots bows in their house into the backyard like we just did? He's crazy. Like yeah. So Peter is as masculine as they come and I listen to that episode and I think we unfairly got a very small slice of what Terry is all about. And when I listen to this book, I was like, oh thank God in some sense. Like I'm, so I'm glad it's much more.
Little one-sided there. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Alright, that's helpful. I felt the same thing. You did. Dude. I absolutely felt the same thing you did. I was like, okay. This is like, I'm not gonna say well, yeah. And you know, I
think also, you know, for those people are interested, you can kind of look at Mark injury since commentary on the current thing, right. He is a lot of thoughts on the current thing in quotation marks, and I don't want to speak for Mark, but I used to start every presentation I did with a quote.
From Mark Twain. And in this case, I do think it's actually verified. I know. It's like Mark Twain Abraham Lincoln and like right Gandhi and Groucho Marx get like 90% of all quotes on the internet, but it's or Mae West. But the quote was and I think I'm getting this right, you know, whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority. It's time to pause and reflect and just identify how much of what I'm actually. Not just saying, but believing
Our conclusions, I've come to from like first principles are actually following some kind of logical process or from direct experience. And how much of it is just conditioning. How much of it is a subconscious or conscious fear response because I see people getting having gasoline poured on them and being lit on fire on the internet metaphorically. Speaking whenever they voiced the opposite and I think it's very very
Important to pay attention to that, not just with respect to where we segue from with with Terry, but it's like whenever you're to in line with kind of what the majority are saying. Like it might be true, but very often were absorbing beliefs or perspectives or positions that yeah, really, aren't. We haven't earned if that makes sense. We haven't earned this
position. I mean the same goes true for
food like oh she had a meeting.
McDonald's, everyone else is eating McDonald's. Maybe this isn't the best
thing for me.
So speaking of herd Behavior, this all I'll go the other direction. Should I talk about my first ever nft?
I'm so excited. You've jumped in. Yeah, I jumped in and you
know, I hesitated partially because as you know, since you're
Responsible for sort of pulling my attention. I've been tracking this stuff for a while. And and thankfully, you got me off my ask you like, hey, I'm going to be doing this thing. Don't tell anybody. Now we can talk about it. It's gonna be called Grails and do you want to be part of it? And do you want to explain just very briefly at what Grails was? Yeah, but it is and then I can hop into
it. Yeah, absolutely. And for those that are listening, that have no interest in of
teas that are read the headlines out
there.
Rest assured that I can tell you that I to being so deep enough to use believe that there's a lot of
hype in the sector. Like there is a lot of anyone armed with
Photoshop right now can publish an NF to the blockchain. And that means that there's going to
be a lot to
kind of, like, sort through and sift through to find the gyms. And I, but as an underlying fundamental technology, it is a sound one. And that there's proven scarcity. There's durability of the asset. Meaning, it doesn't degrade
with time, you can
transfer.
There's a there's a bunch of great things about it that it will be around forever. I
have no doubt. Now that said there was a lot of hype going on into the world of n of T, is here. And there still is six or so months ago and I thought to myself, like let's create an empty project in called Grails. And the reason
it was called Grails. It was Indiana
Jones and, you know, the Holy Grail where
he has to choose that cup, you know, that fairy. If it's very famous episode. They're all Choose Wisely. And if you
choose the wrong one, you like you turned in shrivel up and died, right? So,
So the thinking there was that so much attention at that time was on Flipping in a diesel. I'm gonna grab this one on the by 45 Grand, sell for 100, you know,
also, I'm just going to interject for a second. Also, some people refer to what they might consider, like the blue chip. And ft is as Grail and if T's, there's also that use of the word. Yeah.
Can take. That's right. Yes. So the thinking, there was okay. Let's put the emphasis back on the ark and let allow people to look and consider each individual piece. And then they have to make a decision.
So 20 artists 20 Anonymous artist all up on the site as a member of my little group called the proof Collective. You got to choose one so you could go in there and just pick one that you wanted and then we would do the grand reveal. And so afterwards, we would reveal who the artists were 100 percent of the sale of the end of T and the royalties went directly to the artist. So I did not profit at all and you were kind enough to say. I'm going to be one of those artists that people have to guess if it's
Me or not. Yeah,
so there are 28 basic. Imagine you go to a website. There are 20 thumbnails of different types of artwork. Most if not all artists who are established did something that was non-identifiable. A lot of them did something completely different stylistically so that you wouldn't know it was them and
Then people were guessing right. So there's a lot of speculation in various discords and so on about who might be the artist behind which piece and when you initially offered it to me and I'll skip to the punchline real quickly. People want to see this what the output was. I'm going to Tim dot blog, / and ft and I'll just forward to a page on Open Sea where you can see what this looks like, but I bounced around a whole bunch of ideas. And then I realized, wait a second about a year ago, they do.
Over a year ago. I wrote a short story and I've never published fiction anywhere. So I've never had a fiction blog posts that I can remember. I've never published any fiction in book form. I've never had a magazine article that was fiction, and I decided to take that which was about to say, fourteen hundred words, and the name of the piece is how to start a war.
Come back to why it's called that because this was written, keep in mind more than a year ago. So it's nothing to do with the current conflict. But how to start a war. It's 1,400 or so words and decided to make that the background of this piece and then, to layer images on top of it. So, I ended up thinking on my own and then along with this designer, Lisa Quine about how to create something. That would actually make a nice say poster in a frame on a wall or a print, I needed some
M. I needed some constraints. I was like, okay, let me not like blue sky. This totally. It has to look decent on a wall. If someone put this up on a wall and it's called how to start a war because it is based on a real experience. I had which I'll let people read the piece who want to read the piece of the only place you can find this first published fiction Piece By Me is as this nft. That's the only place you can find it and it's an easy to read. But the way it starts is
Is with someone handing me a business card and saying, if you want to start a war, call me, and then it's like the whole thing goes down, pretty deep rabbit hole, and most of it is a composite but true to life, which made it pretty easy to write and that's it. And that's how it started and it's been really a fun experience for me. So thank you. Kevin for getting me off my ass. All the proceeds from this nft.
Go to my foundation, so they'll end up funding scientific research and other initiatives related to primarily mental health, possibly longevity and life extension, or a health span extension, but predominantly mental health, and I feel really good about it. So it's been a fun little experiment and chance to also kind of understand how some of the plumbing works. You know what I mean? It's like, if you want to, there's a point, you can only read so many books about like playing soccer and then you got to get out there and actually kick a ball around. Right?
Like you're not gonna really
Have a feel for it until you start screwing around with the actual mechanics and plumbing and having to do things.
And yes, good success man. One sold for 15 eith, which is recurrent prices around 50. K, you know, you've had a bunch of good. Secondary sales people were pretty pumped. Yeah.
It's and it's, it was fun to also have the reveal. So I think a lot of people minted and, you know, ultimately, I hope that there will be some durable value because it's not only my first nft, but it's my first
polished fiction piece. So you kind of get a two-for-one. So,
we'll see. Let me ask you a question. This is meant to be cut out if you don't like it, but a lot of people are actually adding utility to their in ftes. Meaning that like, if you own this original Tim Ferriss piece, something you do in the future, like let's see, do another entity drop, you get some extra special rights, or maybe they come to one of your live shows that get to it, the meet and greets. Like I have, you had any thoughts around like, maybe offering some perks to people that own and hold your
I have I have thought about this. You're not gonna like my answer and I don't want
to do it. Yeah, so
this well, this leads me to a question for you actually, so I decided I want to under promise and over deliver or at least not under deliver. So,
as it stands Rob, has a never deliver 100 or just never promised, never promised. And therefore, you don't have to
deliver. I wanted it to have to the extent that it can again on. This is not
Investment advice, all this stuff, could go to zero, who the fuck knows? But I wanted there to be intrinsic value as a first and there is I think to the extent that there can be I did not want to make any additional promises and you know, I asked you a while back and I'd love to talk about it on the show. If you're open to it. I have a friend. I'm not going to mention the name, but this friend has started different projects in web 3 + ft is and has
I made these promises that are kind of ongoing promises and then the value of whatever he has created is tied to the ongoing delivery of more and more things. And it's ended up being a
huge stressor for him because he feels
like
A, I have to do this forever be, I can't figure out how to extricate myself be, if I don't do that. Then when the Music Stops, like the last people left holding, these entities will just lose all their money right after. He has tremendous guilt. Also, and stress around that, I'd love to just hear how you think about this. And maybe common mistakes that you see people make because it does seem like more and more promises are being made. And so,
You launch a project now. And again, this comes back to the Mark Twain thing. Whenever you cite find yourself on the side of the majority. It's time to pause and reflect. So but I've talked to yet different friends were like, hey man, if you launch your project now, like it's table Stakes, you have to do this this this this this this private Community, this events
access qas, did it too? And I'm like,
well, hold on a second. Like I'm not convinced. Everybody can or will deliver those things. And if the table Stakes just
Keep getting larger and larger larger like that is not ultimately scalable and definitely write things are going to break. People are going to lose
money. Yeah, how do you think
about this kind of stuff?
What you're describing is? What's becoming a pretty normal thing in the NFC World? Worry, it's is called utility and ft. Where yeah, it's not just about the artwork.
So many people have heard the name of people or any other, you know, the bigger, xcopy the bigger, and a few artists and like, that's pretty straightforward. It's jpeg. It looks great. You collect it. You hang it. On your wall done deal. You're
never
Anything else, but
it is a piece of art, right? Yeah. So the utility an empty world is one where when you do buy the nft. It comes with additional unlocks and those can be both
online
Offline. That could be things
like with the board Apes when they have their
token that they launched you. So you got some ape token that came along with it. That has some liquidity to it. It could be all slew of different things. So it is a slippery slope and it is something I would certainly it's buyer, beware for sure. Unless they
They are taking it serious enough to build a real team around it and considering it a business. Like what we do at proof with the proof Collective membership is it's very much a business for us. It's a corporation. We have employees. We have payroll. We have all of
that and it is a new
type of media company that we're building from the ground up. So I can imagine what is put on the shoulders of an individual. Like, if it was this, you doing it at a Tim and of T, so you have to manage a Discord and do meetups and all that? Like, yeah, that sounds horrible, right? Yeah.
The other thing too is you do have to think about end of life for these particular utility and at ease. So I think the ones that you're right in that you can imagine a world where if you have a utility and of tea and it ends at 3 years, you know, what happens to the price at 2 years and 6 months, do people start bailing on and dry and who's the buyer? And if there is any buyers at all, it just plummets and value, and people lose all this money. So, our solution, and when I came up with the with the proof Collective, again, this is like with Tim's enough.
I am not telling you go by this. First of all, they're outrageous right now. So it's thousand memberships. The current price is three hundred thousand dollars for membership and it's amazing. But we set a three-year limit on this actual on, the benefits were four months into a three year membership. So what happens at year to to this insanely like, you know, crazy asset. So we figured out that there's two things that happen and for us one we're working with. Well, we will be working with a very well-known nft artists to convert and swap out.
The artwork from a membership card into a real piece of art. So at 1000, you can do that. You can make them scarce and rare and you can make them actually individually collectible and we're going to have to pay this artist because the one that I'm thinking about that, we're talking to, it's going to be a very expensive like million-dollar-plus kind of check to write to go and have this artist do something really unique. But then when it expires in that swamp happens at the last day, you're like, okay, I have value here because this is a
Real art in ft. And then of course, at the very end, you do things like there's a season to maybe they get a half discount off into the next season, or whatever. It may be. So there's ways to mitigate some of that. There's no perfect solution, but I think that is the best that I've come up with to date, is really making it something that can stand on its own. Even when membership goes away, or the relative benefits go away.
I think super smart. I, when you describe that to me, was the first time I had heard of that type of
Kind of time-bound conversion event, super clever. It's very clever and I think it highlights. Also how as you said, if you're going to participate in anything that has a value predicated on future deliverables, and roadmaps, make sure that you do the diligence to evaluate the team behind it. Gavin. I don't like really make sure you do that because holy
Batman. Like there is a lot of action in the space and you need to. Yeah, if you don't have a good way to assess teams, or if you don't have an approach to that, then don't do it. A
lot of people talk about something called Fudd and they don't like it. It's this fear uncertainty and doubt and in the end of T World, they'll be like, don't spread fun. I don't spread Fudd, but I'm actually have the opposite end of the spectrum and that I believe flood is actually a good thing. Like we need to have fear uncertainty and doubt in each of these projects in properly evaluate them. Like there's multiple.
People fears, when it comes to in at, he's raising money. There's a fear around the use of proceeds. What are they going to do? I think I disappear after they received the money, there's fears around execution risk are, they can actually deliver on their promises. There's Market fears. Crypto is very lumpy to this drop in value by half. Like, you need to really evaluate these things. And make sure there's a credible team behind them before you go into
them. And also pointing out risks is not Fudd. So Fudd, just to use this in a context where I have exposure to it, so fear and
In and out. Usually when I've run into it in Tech. So, my first job out of college was selling storage area networks, fibre channel in competition against Network, Appliance, and EMC. And so on, and the bigger companies would use fear uncertainty and doubt. But it wasn't always based on fact, if we were close to winning an account. They would say, well, hey there a start-up. Yes, they have funding. But how long do you think they're going to be around? You? Just don't know, like, they write be around it.
Five years, but they might be out of business. What happens to your service contract, who manages, the the upkeep, if you have issues with firmware, what's going to happen when you need to swap it out, if they run out of funding, right? So, that type of intimidation through uncertainty is kind of one type of fud. But if we are off a certain Coastline in South Africa, and there are seals in the water and it's full of great white sharks, and I'm like, maybe you don't want to go in there because there a lot of great white sharks.
Barks, if your
responses stop selling me Fudd, man, everything's going to be okay,
then you might just have your arms bitten off.
There's actually like a factual and you're gonna bleed is this one? Yeah, you're gonna oh, yeah, you're gonna
bleed out. It's not a concern, not a good situation, very hard to swim with arms. So I will say that not to get all. I'm surprised. I'm so amped up. I haven't had that much caffeine today. I'm feeling pretty good. That you need to be very cautious to quote, Warren Buffett because you can't really lose quote in Warren Buffett's. Why not don't ask about
Barber if you need a haircut, if someone has a vested interest in something when they're telling you everything's going to be all right, because their wallet is going to take a hit. If it doesn't go up into the right, they are not an unbiased source of immigration
and, you know, a lot of what's Happening then ft world just to
mention real briefly. Like there's a story, I heard long time ago. It was actually an anecdote that this guy told is pretty shady cat. This guy who was involved in infomercials and I happen to be like
Around a table and he was telling the story to someone else.
This was way
back like early 2000s and he was telling it like this Grand lesson that he was like bestowing upon his children. And I was like, oh, wow. This guy's really unethical and you told this long story about this guy who caught this amazing tuna fish and he can't it and he sold it and then it sold for $10 and it sold for $100 and then like
sold for 1,000 and then 10,000 and then, like
100,000. And then one day, somebody who owned this? Like hundred thousand dollar can of tuna fish.
She opened it and it was totally rotten. And so he reached out to the person who sold it to him. And I was like, hey, you saw me this tuna fish. It's totally rotten. And the guy said that tuna fish isn't for eating that tuna fish is for selling
the. Yeah. Like but I think there's a lot of that going on, right? Like, the greater fool theory
of investing. It's like, alright. Well, as long as I can find someone who does even less diligence than I did. It'll all work out. And Yeah, you got to be careful.
Well, especially the other thing too and it's something I'm trying.
Figure out because I am building in the space is there are a lot of projects that are coming out and they're serving very large audiences. Like the reason why the proof Collective stuff. We only did a thousand is because I don't think I could
handle more than thousand people with this type of stuff that we want to do on that
side. Some of these other
projects not the interrupted. I will again because apparently that's my thing today and you have a company building experience but managing expectations and inbound and
Requests and complaints from 10,000 people, that is a lot to actually handle. Well. Yeah, right. And
so that's kind of like we have another project that's coming out that is 10,000 people big but the way that we're doing it is completely different than what's been done to date because what basically, what happens is when you promised 10,000 people the world and you have a budget of X and you divide up that budget and you send them, you make do on your good on your promise and you send them something in the mail.
They get like an engraved pen in like a hat. There's not a whole lot of budget to go around to all these people. So the way that we treat things is we actually and this next project we kind of do it almost like the airline miles way that you
get different status based
on your
engagement with the community, how long you hold the nft for
so that we can put out different tiers based on
how you actually have committed to the
community. We call it. It's a long story, but is it the project called Moon birds and it's
called?
Eating, but you actually lock up your
asset and you unlock additional benefits as time goes on. So it's a way to divide
and conquer versus trying to promise these massive benefits to the entire world, if that makes sense. So do the people who hold Moon Birds commit to? I do want to say, I mean, that's not a vesting schedule, like nesting period in advance. Is that something they commit to had or is it just however long they hold it and each day they can decide if they want to buy or sell.
I guess cell discuss.
Yeah, when they lock it up at the contract, level it prevents it from being
sold ice. Okay, so they do decide up
front. Yeah, but they can get him back out in two seconds at any time. They want, it is stops through continuous streak and their their status level.
Basically. Okay, got it. That's interesting.
Then it allows me to carve it out because like, if you think about like, let's just say you did and of T to 10,000 your fans, you could say. Okay. Well the people that have actually been with me for listen. So you did this years ago, you can see the people that were with me for the last three years and have stuck with me and Ben.
Members for that long, I will do that private dinner with you because it's going to be 25 or something. You know what I mean? It's like it allows you to like the segment things.
I have this private Facebook group for people who supported my subscription podcast, kind of alternative business model years ago, and that's still around. And it's a Muslim, a smaller group of people. So I could see possibly doing something along those lines. I don't want to mention the name, but I think you will agree that.
Potential name that I've been coming up with ideas for for like last two years for this nft project is pretty phenomenal. I think you'll agree.
You have a cop, top 5 pfp name in your in your repertoire. They're like Tim has it as idea for a big in of T drop that is is powerful.
It would be very hard for people not to write about it. And I expect at least 70% of the internet would go. Oh my,
oh my, oh,
How could, how could he, how could he, I'd give you a 10% chance of being cancelled with that one, Tim after two glasses of wine. You know, she project is really, for five
glasses of wine. Isn't a four or five glasses of wine. And there is part of me. That is, like, do I want this to be the most dominant feature of my Wikipedia
page? Maybe not. Maybe, not right. If that's my current
activities. I don't know. I don't know. I do think it would be ultimately.
Hilarious. It would be largely absurdity focused. So we'll see if that ever happens. I don't know if it'll ever happen. I want to see I'm actually Super Why
not though, man. It's like you, well, you're gonna you have nothing. Well, you do have a lot to lose, you know, the nice part
is what would canceling look like for an NF T project that upsets some people like what does that? What does that really look like? Right. I
guess you have like for you it's like lots of noise.
People stop listening to your podcast or something. I
mean really. Like if you've been listening to the podcast long enough or listening to these random shows long enough. Yeah, if you're still listening we've had ample opportunity to talk about any number of things that might cause somebody to get their knickers in a Twist.
I mean, you literally talked about anal tobacco earlier today, like that was like, where she talked about
anal administration of tobacco. We've talked about, you know, when I took that like 30 day. No, what was it? It's like no booze. No masturbating.
Experiment with the audience and talked about like my you know, hey before you go on this porn fast, here are some recommendations like me like this isn't exactly family programming. So right. I feel well it depends on your family, I guess, but but oh my God, I'm definitely putting tuna helper in the name of this episode.
So now I know you.
You have some pretty cool stuff.
Coming up. I'm very cool stuff coming up and you've been working so hard. I mean, I think it's hilarious that like the less you need to work the harder you seem to work.
Have you observed this? I mean, honestly, you know, it's funny. Have you ever met Bill Harlan or know? Do you know, do you know him at all? Harlan estate. The wines.
Are we talking about? Well, I know, will ya? That's why it's getting, yeah. You never met his dad bill.
Yeah. I may have met bill
at. I can never pronounce this word. It's too.
Fancy for me, coming from Long Island. Is it? Promontory
Promontory? Yeah.
Promontory Jesus. I can never say that word. Yeah, the wine.
I'm yeah, I may have
met bill. When we did a site visit ages ago. I may have. Yeah, but let's just assume not for the
purposes of this. Okay. So, so for people, that don't know, Harlan estate is one of the most premier culty wines and Napa Valley. It's insanely sought-after. Multi-year, wait list is to get access to an allocation. I've been selectively. It's like the
moon birds of wine, basically.
Right? The
moon birds, like the NFC. You have a high-end wine. Exactly. Very, very hard to get. So I've been very lucky to be on that board in his give me exposure to just a world that I would normally never have any insight into and they have properties to it as well. Like metal wood and the restaurant and metal wood, which is the three Michelin star restaurant. So they have a bunch of different things that I always learn about at these board meetings, learn from, and hopefully help on the tech side a little bit and helping them form their thinking around new ways to
embrace current Tech. So,
One of the things that he said to me at a dinner just like a week ago. We were at this dinner and bills in his 80s now and we're talking about in ftes and how they're applicable potentially to the wine world. And some really interesting ways there, which I believe will absolutely happen and he goes and I'm paraphrasing. But he's like, Kevin I get it because when you see these markets and you see it before anyone else, he goes, you push in really hard and you get the outsized rewards and for him that was
The state in Napa Valley, 30 years ago and he goes, then you sit around and you wait until you see the next one and it might be a decade or longer until you see this next big moment. When it's time to push your chips in again. And for me, I have been sitting around waiting since web to 2004 and granted. I was really active in web to and there was mobile and there was a few other amazing things that happen VR was stupid, but then you are really doubling down on the VR stupid.
Thing, uh, little visually get the right size and price that people like it. But, but I think that's, I had a big fight with one of your other guests. Adam ghazali. He told me that they are was going to take off like five years ago, and we bet a bottle of hibiki 30 when it was
a lot
less expensive and he still hasn't sent me. The bottle could be 30. So it's
just gonna keep getting more expensive. Anyway, call them. Oh, yeah.
It's getting more expensive. It's like 5x to Bryce's Savannah. Cough it up, man. So anyway, long story short.
Is while give you great example, I was working on the moon Birds project till midnight last night and I woke up naturally in this is weird for me at 6 a.m. Got out of bed and started working again, because there is this excitement. There's this blue ocean. There is so much that can be done in this space. That it's like, Tim is like when you came to the nft conference. With me, we were sharing a room and you were asleep on the couch, which was awesome. It's the Valerius. He wanted it. The bed. I would not let you in the bed. This is true Stars fucking freezing. It got doesn't this just a side note.
It was so
fucking cold. This is in Marfa, Texas got down like 40 degrees at night. And I'm sleeping on the couch with a towel on top of me, doesn't even
cover, like, the lower half of my legs
shivering dying. And I'm
like, Kevin, you sure there any blankets. He's like, no man, no extra blankets. And then the last day, I'm like, what's that? Huge drawer on the other side of the bed? Pull it out. Comforters Galore everywhere. Yeah, heckley. Sorry about that. But so, but anyway, when we were there,
You and I were both feeling that we're getting up early to talk about, and if you don't like and it's not just about the hype cycle. It's about this. There's a new technology that is just taking shape. And, yes, it will be many years before it's fully realized, but this is, when you want to start paying attention. It's when there's the most risk, of course, but early investors, you Embrace risk because that's where the most upside is, right? So that's what's exciting about it. Yeah, I would also
say to reinforce that made it, you know, Marfa.
Definitely the feeling like, okay. We're on the beach in Northern California. And this is kind of the first burning man. I get the, a, to had that feeling or sxsw like 2007, where interactive was just like the redheaded stepchild. Sorry trigger warning for redheaded stepchildren.
So the stepchild of cancels now South by nobody cared, you know, I just like nobody cared about interactive and
now it is just as not to make this like the injuries and theme show but like software
Eating the world right now interactive is like the glue that holds everything together. And I'm not saying that's going to be the case with NF T's necessarily, but you definitely had that. And it's more for me of, like, a physiological feeling. You're like, okay. We're at a really small group. There are a lot of very smart people here who have decided, this is what they want to dedicate all their time to. So if you agree with some investors, would take the position that like what the nerds do on the weekends now, is what everybody will be doing and like five years.
Or 10 years, the dickson's of that. Right, Dixon, maybe. Yeah, and it's like, okay, I do think there's something to that. And there is just, this feels like electric feeling, which is is hard to put words to, but it is. It's kind of a physiological response for me. And I talked about this a little bit in the podcast with Dixon and Duvall, but that's definitely true for this.
And I would also say it is
risky to what
Kid. The cool kid saying a PIN to whale into a position like it. Yeah. Yeah, if you
just
take half your net worth and you're not sure how you're gonna make your mortgage payment and you push all those chips into something that's hugely speculative. That's risky, but I don't view that as intelligent risk-taking, that's just foolish and has tremendous downside potential, but I do think you can begin to place little bets.
And think about mitigating downside, right? Because if right now we're in a phase where there are opportunities for like 5 x 10x, 100x Investments. I know a lot of people have become spoiled over covid, whether I started trading on Robin Hood and this that the other thing and they're like, oh it's less than a thousand percent a year. Like I'm not interested. I'm going to look for the next best thing and it's I think that's going to burn a lot of people, but you can then start to think about
Actually studying some of these older investors and and learning about portfolio construction and really taking a risk intelligent approach to playing only with chips. You can afford to lose and I think you get
smarter that way. Oh, absolutely. Because if you go into it and you're like, high-risk high-reward baby
and you use that as a smokescreen to cover up, your complete lack of due diligence to cover up. The fact that you have no understanding the
Knology to cover up. The fact that you didn't do any homework on the team behind x y&z that you saw trending on Twitter because you think that you're going to make a fast Buck. You're just going to lose your money sooner or later. You will lose your buddy. But I'm also seeing people who are really taking this as an opportunity to basically like, go to grad school, right? And they're like, yeah. I'm going to play with just enough and to everybody. I mean, I don't know if you agree with this or not, but from my perspective, it like, I
waited whatever
was a year and a half.
After we start talking about NF T is to launch my first nfty
because I don't think you need to rush. I do not think you need to rush like it is so early. It is
still so early.
If anything now is the time to dabble and just have the foundational knowledge so that when you're ready to have an informed decision and push in and do something you aren't starting from zero, so, you know, I often times tell people they're like, how do I get started? I am T's and I'm like, okay, it's easy. You have to learn how
How to use meta mask and you have to learn how to send and one eith to that wallet or $200 with Danny to that wallet. You have to learn how to safeguard your secret phrase, like, there's some foundational knowledge, that's going to be essential for this world. And Now's the Time to start. Even if you don't want to spend anything on and of T's Now's the Time to Get That Base knowledge down. So when you're ready, you can pull the trigger.
I was just laughing because I went to this conference recently. Yeah. I'm thinking about you and just have cutting as you are with all these things and so
Neck deep in everything and able to look around corners. And I was at this conference because you have, you know, I haven't been to conferences in forever with the exception of the Marfa thing, but that wasn't really a conference,
right? That was just sounds kind of hanging out, and having barbecue
and just bullshitting and talking about the potential amazing future that we have ahead of us with respect to these Technologies, but I went to like a conference conference and I was going to these sessions and going to these dinners and everybody was asking me, you'll appreciate this is going to sound.
Weird to a lot of people listening, but
everyone had like their new big project. Like, damn, I knew big project and then so they'd be like, so they like look at my name badge in the be like,
oh, Tim Ferriss podcast. Okay, you have podcasts your podcast about not be like God's interview broadcast and they'd be like looking over my shoulder for like another Finance person to talk to this guy. This guy, this guy is boring
and then they'd be like and they'd be like, so what's your new big
project? What's your gigantic, new project? You're focused on and the best thing I could come up with in part because I don't really want to talk to these people, but it's kind of true. I was like, I'm uh,
Try to figure out how to talk to animals right now.
What what, and
then there's like, they'd be like, oh, that's that's that's fascinating. And then they'd like walk off with their little or David licker glass of champers to find somebody else to like, give a TED talk to. But yeah, I feel like I'm kind of going the opposite direction. Like I become super fascinated and I have been fascinated by like animal tracking specifically. Leave putting aside like the animal communication piece. That's a whole separate can of worms.
But like tracking one of the oldest human skills imaginable. It's also an animal's. Yeah, of course, but SEC, okay, who are the best trackers in the world? I gave you need to track. Which given a fun hobby. Yeah. So I've become I've been reading book after book after book and as one would expect there's a lot of horseshit and a boatload of charlatans, who claimed to be like, oh, I was trained by whatever a such-and-such scout from such-and-such tribe and you're like, okay, there's
Way for me to possibly verify that with, you know what? I mean? Yeah, so I have, you know, it could just be ghost stories. This person is Tommy but there are still folks who are exceptionally good. So, that's something I'm leaning into. So if anybody has any thoughts on that, where you can actually verify these people know what they do. Hit me up on Twitter at T. Ferris. TF e. RI says anything else you'd like to mention Kevin before we cut out? Because I know we're coming up on time.
Yeah. I mean, I guess the only thing is, I'm at Kevin Rose. If you want to follow my Adventures.
Ears on Twitter or mostly round all things. Kryptonian FTS Moon Birds is our new launch. It's coming out. You most likely just gonna have to find in the secondary Market because it's been insanely oversubscribed, but it should be a really fun utility and ft that you should check
out. Yeah. I want to
see brother. Yeah. I'll be along for the moonbird
ride. So I'm excited about that. I really appreciate the are always willing to be like the first monkey shot into space at least between the two of us with stuff like this. Then I get to I get to have front row seats,
to watch his mic, mic capsule, comes back down and in and what's going to
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, it's awesome. So that so thank you for that. I could be made in the space. Okay, let's let's see what the capsule does. Let's see how the return goes. Yeah, because exactly,
I'm so excited for you met. I'll just say real quickly and passing and I've said this to you before but it's so fun for me to see. I like a playing field and a sport and a set of technologies that is so perfectly suited to like all of the circles that overlap to form the Venn diagram. That is Kevin Rose. Like like you
I said, thank you. It's been a long time since I've seen you this excited about something where this
is all your doing. I mean, I'm yeah, of course you have
family and you're a good dad, you good husband you doing all of that. You're not neglecting everything else, but you are on fire right now and it's so fun to watch. It just makes me. It makes me happy to see you. So excited about
something. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm telling you. This is the way it's always been for me. And I'm sure you can relate is, when you find something that you like, really, personally, love, like, you really getting up at six as a matter because it doesn't
I feel like you're working at
all. You know? Yeah. Yeah, if you have bigger batteries, it'll last longer. Exactly. Yeah. Pmn. Well, it's good
to see you brother and thanks for taking the time to jam. Yeah, let's hang in person soon.
Let's do it. And folks will have links to various resources and so on in the show notes as usual teamed up blog / podcast and until next time.
Thank you for tuning in. Okay. Bye. Take care. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing.
Before you take off, and that is five bullet Friday with you. Enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday. That provides a little fun before the weekend, between one and a half, and two million people. Subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Below Friday, easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page
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Reading books. I'm reading albums. Perhaps gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech, tricks, and so on, that gets sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange, esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So, if that sounds fun, again, it's very short. A little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. Something to think about, if you'd like to try it out. Just go to Tim dot blog, /, Friday, type that into your browser. Tim.
In DOT log slash Friday. Drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Shopify shop buys. One of my favorite companies out there, one of my favorite platforms ever, and let's get into it. Shopify is a platform as I mentioned, designed for anyone to sell anything anywhere, giving entrepreneurs to resources, once reserved for big business. So, what does that mean? That means in no time flat, you can have a great looking online store that brings your ideas.
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