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These foods are designed to be addictive. Now. There was an old, their statement that any white substance is addictive. White flour is addictive. White sugar is addictive. Cocaine is addictive. Heroin is addictive. You choose the white. It's addictive. Unfortunately, sickness is good for business and I'm sad to say, you know, I turned against that over 20 years ago, you know, I could still be patching, people's coronary arteries up.
Bypasses that I found I could actually keep people away from me by teaching them.
Hey everyone. Welcome back to on purpose. The number one Health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen learn and grow. Now, you know that, I like to find people that can share with you really great insights about your mind, about your body, about your diary about your food.
Food and today I'm sitting down with none other than dr. Steven gundry. Dr. Gunther. It's such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for joining me. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. We were sharing earlier that we share a mutual friend and Lewis house. And I've seen you on a show many times and I'm really glad that we get to sit down
together. Well, I appreciate you having me on because, you know, I have the get dr. Gundry Podcast and maybe by appearing. Here. I can become the number one Health podcast.
So thank you. Yeah. Well, we we go, all
Price health. So we do mental health, physical health spiritual health. But today, I'm really, really excited to talk to you about food. Our gut diet. What we take in now, we've all heard the famous phrase that you are what you eat. We've had it for years and years and years and years and years. And as someone who's been doing this for years and years and years, how true is that statement? And what is it? What comes to mind when you hear that statement? Well, I always add
the second part of that sentence, which is probably far more.
Not than what you just said. You are what you eat, but you are what the thing, you're eating eight. And that's actually one of the big surprises in the last 20 years of my career. That so many times. It's yeah, we got to choose what we're going to eat but we have to choose what that animal ate or what that plant had been fed or fertilized or sprayed with to really make.
Good outcome and it always shocks
me. And how do we get aware of that? I feel like one of the biggest challenges in this whole field is, you know, we have all these labels of organic or not organic, or whatever. It may be. I find like, as a uneducated consumer, I'm speaking about myself. It's so difficult to know what it's been sprayed with what it hasn't been sprayed with what it's been exposed to. Where do you
start? So, I guess organic is a good place to start, but as I've
Learn from my patients Through The Years. So many of us are sensitive to, for instance, wheat, the lectins in wheat that organic wheat is just as deadly to you as wheat. That's been sprayed with glyphosate Roundup. On the other hand. Most people I think still are unaware. That glyphosate Roundup is one of the best ways to destroy.
Or got that anyone has ever developed. And now people associate glyphosate with GMO, genetically modified organisms, but in fact glyphosate is now routinely. Sprayed on conventional crops conventional week conventional. Oh, it's conventional flaxseed, conventional soybeans conventional canola oil canola, and so, and it doesn't have to be declared.
Don, any label. So, not only speaking of you are, what you eat. These crop foods are fed to our animals and those animals, literally not only pass on glyphosate into us when we eat them. But as I talked about most animals are still given antibiotics to make them grow faster and grow fatter. And those antibiotics are passed into us as well and one of the things
That we didn't know when broad-spectrum antibiotics were introduced about 50 years ago is that we didn't know about the gut microbiome. Nobody knew about it until about 10 years ago. And we had no idea that these broad spectrum, antibiotics was literally throwing Napalm on our tropical rainforests in our gut. And so most of us, inadvertently are swallowing antibiotics every day and are swallowing.
Glyphosate every day without our knowing and sadly. Looking at, for instance, organic oats a huge number of organic oat products have glyphosate in them. You know, I had dr. Mark Hyman who's a friend of
mine. I loved on every had him on the show.
Yeah. On my podcast and marks a pretty careful eater and he still has significant amounts of glyphosate in himself, and he's going.
What the heck? You're out, what am I going to do? And so, if he and I are really kind of sensitive picky eaters. Imagine what the average consumer is getting in their
food. And he's got a way of someone measuring. How much glyphosate in their body? Like you were saying with your mama. Yeah,
we can actually measure glyphosate. You can measure glyphosate in blood. You can measure glyphosate in hair. We when we're looking for Mischief, in some of our patients.
Ants who aren't doing better with doing every by following the rules. Many times were shocked. The glyphosate is right up there on their culprits.
And when you say deadly, let's talk about that. Because I think for a lot of people, we don't really understand. Like you were saying that from a gut perspective. We only started understanding about microbiome, probably around 10 years ago, at least in Western medicine, grow in eastern medicine. The gut is at the heart of your health.
And, and that's kind of what I was especially exposed to through my wife as I was mentioning. But when you say that, we only found out 10 years ago. I think there's still a whole group of people who are just not aware of how Central their gut is to their health. But also, when you say deadly and you say things like wheat, it's like whoa, Wheats and everything. We're how do you help people understand what you mean by deadly and what's actually happening happening inside of us when we consume these products?
Yeah. So I mean Hippocrates father Western
Medicine, 2500 years ago, said all disease begins in the gut and one of my colleagues from Harvard doctor, Fasano has paraphrase that he, I think stole it from me, but that's okay. All disease begins in a leaky gut and certainly I've been preaching and Publishing that almost all diseases. Whether it's heart disease, whether it's cancer, whether it's dementia, whether it's
Certainly, whether it's autoimmune diseases, begin in a leaky gut. Now, people are beginning to hear and understand, maybe understand leaky gut. If you'd asked me 15 years ago, if I thought what I thought about leaky God, I would have told you it was pseudoscience. Now, we can measure it, we can see it happen, anyone with an autoimmune disease. I can assure your listeners, has a leaky gut and the
The good news is when we seal a leaky gut and it's actually quite possible to do, the autoimmune disease, goes away. Wow, goes away stays in remission. So, getting back to, we have a wonderful set of bacteria, viruses fungi in our gut over a hundred trillion different organisms and all these little one-celled creatures.
Are really probably the most important organ in our body that we really are, were totally unaware of and there's this incredible symbiotic relationship between our gut microbiome, our skin microbiome, our oral microbiome and everything that happens to us. We now know that they control our immune system. They
they control our mood, they control quite frankly, whether you or I are going to develop heart disease, they control whether you or I are going to get dementia and a lot of people particularly I think in the west say oh come on now, you know where the most advanced highest organism that's ever happened and our brains are the most Exquisite things and you're trying to tell me that a
Cell organism is actually controlling Our Fate and yes,
they are. What are some of the basic things. Let's, let's make this really simple for everyone listening. Now. What are some of the basic do's and don'ts of strengthening our gut, strengthening our digestion? Making sure we're not giving in to some of these basic challenges that we may come across, you said you and dr. Mark Hyman maybe on the very safe and I'd love to hear what you guys do.
We eat on a daily basis and you, of course, because you're here, but but I would love to hear what the basic sign, then what you do at the very extent because I feel like you're someone who's obviously so well researched red. You've seen it affect people's lives. You must be on one end of the spectrum. How do people start on that Journey. Well, so, one of the
things I talk about in my current book the energy Paradox, which I think is very illustrative, some Duke researchers who I've had on my podcast.
Um, we're fascinated with this hunter-gatherer tribe in Tanzania called, the Hans has and the hanzo's are credibly healthy. They have no diseases. They walk the men walk will wait 10 miles a day hunting the women walk o 4 to 5 miles Gathering and they're very thin. They're very fit and they said, you know, we should look at their energy expenditure compare them to desk workers in the United.
Dates and our supposition. Our hypothesis is that these guys are lean and fit and everything because they're walking, they're always moving and their energy expenditure is going to be a whole lot higher than the desk workers. And of course, that's why the desk workers are also fat and miserable turns out when they did the measurements, they found out that these hanzo's are actually expanding the exact same amount of energy as the desk workers. Wow. Now,
When we make a hypothesis in research and we can't prove our hypothesis. Then that really bothers us. We sometimes fudge and say, well, of course, this is what we expected to find. Because everybody has the same amount of energy expenditure or whether you're doing a whole lot or just sitting at a desk. And to me, when I read that article and that's why I wanted them on the program that didn't pass the sniff.
If test didn't make sense, and I said, so sure. Okay, they're both expending the same amount of energy, but clearly those desk workers are walking 8 to 10 miles every day. Where is their energy expenditure going? And it turns out from my research and many other people's research. It's going to inflammation and the inflammation is actually driven by leaking.
Got now, the best way to compare this. We have the lining of our intestines is the same surface area as a tennis court. So when we're watching Wimbledon right now, that huge surface area is actually inside our gut and everybody kind of looks down there waiting when there's no tennis court in here. Well, in fact, there is and we have for lack of a better word, a design flaw that, that
At tennis court. The lining is only one cell thick. Right? And those cells are all held together by what are called tight junctions. When I was kid, we played Red Rover, Red Rover, where two lines of kids locked arms, and you tried to run across most cultures actually have that game. And so there are all locked together because there's only one cell standing between everything, you ate and all of these.
You and you, and on the other side of this one cell wall is 80% of our immune system. 80% of all of our white cells are literally waiting on the other side because quite frankly that's where Mischief can come through. And so normally that wall has some pretty interesting defenses itself against being broken through.
One of the things that dr. Fasano women should before found was that gluten, which is a plant protein, which is called a lectin, which I guess I became famous for is able to actually attach. If it can get to the wall of the god, and attach to a receptor and actually break the tight Junction. And now you've got a gap and through this Gap, you can
Proteins bacteria, bacterial, particles and leaky gut. And our immune system goes. Oh my gosh, we're under attack. We got a rally, the troops, the troops need food. The troops need supplies, and give us all the energy you've got. And so most people don't realize is that the vast majority of us on in the west, particularly?
All of our energy is being devoted to this war that's going on inside of
us. That's incredible. I yeah, that's it's just it's insane. That example with the Hans has you said that? Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's fascinating that all of our energy expenditures all here. Yeah. And so that's why we feel more drained. Its why we feel more stressed. It's why we feel more overworked and exhausted and fatigued. And I think what's really fascinating about this is, I think that so many of us today.
That our, a lot of our pain is mental, but it's actually starting here. Would you say that's true. Does that make sense that? Yeah, you
know, we've talked about for a number of years. We've talked about, you know, the gut brain connection and the, the God is the second brain. Well, we now have kind of added to that the microbiome, got brain connection, and what's fascinating. And I talked about it in the energy.
A docs is that these bacteria primarily make compounds that actually communicate to our brain. They are actually a language. They're literally called a trans Kingdom language where bacteria, talk to our neurons. To our mitochondria, the little energy producing cells to our immune system and they literally
And them text messages. A few years ago. Usually, every year pretty covid. I presented talk at the World Congress of microbiota in Paris and the organizer doctor EDS took me aside and must have been six years ago. And he said, I'm going to tell you something, the microbiome talks to the mitochondria talks to the brain, I said,
Okay, I believe you. But why haven't we discovered the language? He says, oh, don't worry. It will be discovered. I guarantee you it happens and sure enough the language was discovered and it's literally, I think is important is breaking the Enigma code, which was the German code in World War Two.
Yes. Yes. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. And so hearing,
yeah, and so breaking this code, it actually won the Nobel Prize for medicine.
So there is truly a language that bacteria, use to tell us kind of what's going on there. In a way, the real guardians of what is coming in to us
and the cool thing about
bacteria. Everybody thinks our genes are so important. Well, we actually have fewer genes than corn. We actually do.
I'd have the most genes of any animal, that sand, flea, as more genes than we do.
And the neat thing about
bacteria is they have their own genome but bacteria divide so rapidly. They can actually change their genome very, very quickly. And so many of us think that we've actually uploaded most of our computing power to the bacterial and viral.
Genome inside of us because it's it's a much bigger Cloud than our
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That's incredible. Well, that's yeah, so I guess we're just getting so much. I mean, it feels like for years, we've just got so much wrong with. Yeah, we've had the wrong information. We've made the wrong decisions, bringing it back to the basics of someone listening right now and saying doctor gondry, I can actually relate to what you're saying. Like, I experienced what you're saying. If someone's listening to us right now and they're just like, I feel like I have a leaky gut or I'm on the way there or I already know and I'm struggling even
The what are some of the things that we need to cut out and what are the things we need to adopt in a? Very simple way? Because I feel like for most of us we don't have the time to read and research in general. And, and I'm hoping that after this podcast, many people are going to go and order your books. The energy Paradox in the plant Paradox. I think that would be fantastic insight and use for all of our listeners today, but simplify form, what would you encourage is? Stop eating this. Start eating this and why?
Or you it's interesting you
And some people have a gut feeling, and it's interesting women in general, have a much better gut feeling than men and interestingly enough. Women by far, have far more autoimmune diseases than men and fun fact or sad fact. Women actually developed far more Alzheimer's disease than men even though they're clearly the stronger sex. So women actually are
really in tune with
their gut Farm.
More than men. And we have this epidemic of autoimmune diseases, Hashimoto's thyroiditis. For example, IBS irritable bowel syndrome, and these are real things. These are not imagined. Just saw a young woman actually from La has been to every specialist in the world with oh depression anxiety.
Back issues and they can't find anything wrong with her. We finally did a leaky gut panel and food sensitivity panel. And it turns out that to me, it was obvious that she had a profoundly leaky gut. And that so many of the foods that she was being told to eat. We're actually causing herlihy got and you know, she she really, she's only 12 years old. And she just started crying. And she says, you mean I'm not?
Easy. You mean that this is, this isn't in my head because they wanted to put her on antidepressants farce and I sent. Oh, yeah. I said this is look. It's real. We can measure this. So, getting back to your question. The Hans has, for instance, have a incredibly diverse microbiome. They've got, you know, hundreds of thousands of species of bacteria, in their gut, and a lot of those bacteria, actually.
Really like to eat the things that are Troublesome to us. For instance. There are bacteria that like to eat gluten.
Believe it or not, this
and they go gluten yummy. The problem for most of us is all of us have been given antibiotics for dumb things and all of us inadvertently have been eating the antibiotics that are animals have been fed and so and glyphosate believe it or not was patented as an antibiotic. It was not.
Patented as a weed
killer and Monsanto knew
this and yet. So every time we eat these things we actually kind of kill off. The first line of defense that has been established for eons of time and dealing with plant compounds that don't like us. Yeah, that was the premise of the plant Paradox, that plants, believe it, or not. Do not want to be eaten. They have a life. They
You know, we're here first actually and they don't want their kids eaten their babies, their seeds. So they protect themselves with compounds that are designed to make an animal sick. And some of those compounds are these proteins called lectins that can cause leaky gut. So, where are these things? Well, these things are in almost all grains there in pseudo grains, like quinoa or buckwheat, they're not in Millet and sorghum. So folks if you're
Interested in eating grains, and I have nothing against eating grains per se, Millet and sorghum are perfectly safe foods. They don't have any
lectins. Wow, do quinoa and buckwheat have less or no. I
actually have some of the worst lectins. There are sadly. In fact, when I first worked on this, I really wanted buckwheat not to
have a mile of
pharaohs, same problem. Okay,
any of these fancy names for ancient? We are
just, it's
It's still wait. Sorry about that. Got it. An ancient weed is just as mischievous as modern wheat. Yes. Beans and legumes have some of the highest elected contents of any food. Now, the good news is that pressure cooking or fermentation of, for instance, Keen or buckwheat or any of the beans are perfectly safe. For instance. All everybody said, oh, your anti Bean. I'm not anti Bean.
Just want to get rid of their offending compounds because quite frankly, they're anti me
and I mean, there's
there's some amazing research looking at the most famous one. It was the healthy eating day at a school in Boston and 23 students and teachers went to the hospital with bloody. Diarrhea Trace to undercooked beans that there were fed on their healthy eating day.
And but, get a pressure cooker. I've got a whole book, The Plant Paradox family, cookbook on how to pressure cook these things. Luckily. There's a couple of companies now that pressure cook. Their beans Eden brandied eem. And now jovial brand, which is an Italian company easy to remember, jovial. Jovial. Happy person. Oh, yeah. I want some
Happy Beans. Yeah. Yes, and I have
those several times a week. There's beans. Have some
Benefits as long as you defuse them goddamn the same way with the nightshade family and you and I off-camera were talking about nightshades. And those are eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, and believe it or not. Goji berries are planted fam. That's
such a strange one. I know. Yeah,
Goji berries were actually from North America and they were, they were called the wolfberry, and they were taken to China in trade, during early trading day.
Days and they thrived in China. And so, yeah, they're, they're in Nightshade from America and the Peels and the seeds of nightshades are the Troublesome thing. So many cultures. For instance. The Italians refused eat tomatoes for 200 years after Columbus, brought them back because they knew how deadly they were in. Really, to this day. The Italians always peel in DC their Tomatoes before they eat them.
The Southwest American Indians who love Chili Peppers, always peel and DC their chilies before they either eat them or grind them into chili powder. In fact, anybody who wants to do this experiment, just go to the store, buy a can of green chillies, chopped green chillies, open it up, and you'll notice they're peeled in DC
to because
culture is have figured out how to do this. Like, for instance, the Incas loved quinoa.
But they soaked quinoa. The fermented it. They let it rot and then they cooked it, and it's not on the package directions.
Yeah, definitely. Let it rot. Yeah. Let It Rock. That's yes, that I didn't. I had no idea about that about quinoa and buckwheat. So that's, that's massive news to me, and when, but I'm sure, you know, and I'm trying to think for everyone who's listening to us and you've heard this a million times because you're sharing things that are quite
They shouldn't be but they are because and it's for I find it really funny when someone says, oh don't country. You're against beans because I'm just like, I mean, I don't think you have a vendetta against beans or people who own Bean production companies or whatever it is. So I was find that fascinating whenever I hear that because all I'm hearing is just being healthy requires a completely rewiring of our diet and that is hard to hear. It's difficult to hear is
Living the healthy way expensive or no, are some of these changes expensive changes or they are. They affordable change. That's a great
question. I actually still see Medicaid and medical patients, you know, even though my accountant said, wait, would you stop doing that? Well, I believe everybody has a right to Good Health, but we found that so many disadvantaged people, poor people. They actually end up saving money when they do this.
As profit margin is huge in processed foods and about 70 percent of the food. We eat is processed or ultra-processed.
And when you say process you mean from packages, yeah from fabric. Yeah
from packages and people say well, I always read the label and one of my advice is look if you're reading a label, put it down. There's no label on a head of lettuce.
And labeling
laws have been changed to actually fool. You. Oh gosh, that's crazy. We had the former head of the FDA on my podcast recently and he is actually the person who was put, put the labeling on the back and he was actually called into the Oval Office. And I won't tell you the president was, because that's really not important. And big agriculture was in the head of the
Agriculture was in there and they said, you can't put this system on a package. And he said, well, wait a minute then, you know, that's what's in there and they said, you can't do that. You cannot tell people how much sugar is in our products and he said, but, you know, there it is. They said you're going to have to change the label. You're going to have to hide the sugar and it's coming from the head of the FDA and he said, for instance. Let me give you an example. Here's a great example. He said you look at a label on.
A bagel. He said, Bagel says 300 calories and you look down and it says one gram of sugar and you go. Oh, great. No. Sugar in a bagel and it doesn't taste sweet. He says, no, he says there's actually 12 teaspoons of sugar in that bagel and I go, I know that and you know, that why don't, why doesn't the consumer know why? He says we hit it. It's under total carbohydrates and you take total carbohydrates on a label on. This is all in.
My books, take away the dietary fiber, which is actually what we feed, good bacteria with. And that will tell you the amount of sugar in that serving, then just for fun. There's four grams of sugar. There's sorry. There's four grams of carbohydrate in a teaspoon of sugar. So divide that total carbohydrate by for it'll actually tell you the teaspoons of sugar. You're
Ting. And when I have Bunches of packages in my office and when I show a patient healthy product and they go wait a minute, you know, there's five teaspoons of sugar in those, you know, ten little cassava chips. I'm eating. I said, yep.
Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. How is that was lifted? Getting away with that? Like how is that? Okay, because that sound
us is good for business. Yeah, but that's
but it's
So, it's so hard to believe that people are doing that to their own family, their own kids, their own, you know, parents grandparents. Like, it's everyone's consuming. You're right. It's just very to believe that it would be different if they were really healthy in their families. Really healthy and then they were
just. But remember we're in, we are, you know, a profit-driven society and these companies are beholding to shareholders and whether they like it or not. The bottom line is they
They have to produce a profit and as you know and Mark Hyman, and I know these foods are designed to be addictive. Know there was an old their statement that any white substance is addictive and we white flour is addictive. White sugar is addictive. Cocaine is addictive. Heroin is addictive. You choose the white. It's a dictator and they've made a science of addiction. And
Again, unfortunately sickness is good for business. Yeah, and I'm sad to say, you know, I turned against that over 20 years ago, you know, I could still be patching people's coronary arteries up now, I'm and doing bypasses, but I found I could actually keep people away from me dumb by teaching them how to
eat. Yeah. Yeah, and I want to talk to you about that. It feels like there's two trips and you can actually guide us better on this but it feels like there's two.
Transitions. There's and I know this from changing my own diet. Having met my wife and her having a big impact on me. But when you look at diet, there's the change of habit. And then there's like a change of pallet and taste and like addiction is you're saying like we are addicted. We're craving these things that are terrible for us, whether it's fries or whether it's gluten. Like, I know that I've my wife's always telling me to avoid any of the mock meat or, you know, because we're both plant-based. So my wife and I both plant based on
It's but she's always trying to avoid anything with gluten in it. That's processed vegan meat or whatever. It may be, because she's dead against cluded. And so when, when you, when you do this, it's almost like, what is the process you've seen people go through in, trying to change their habits? When I change their palate, how difficult it is been? What has helped people? The most how have people actually broken through that one month of being excited? And I know you created a 30 day challenge how how are people going from 30 days to make that the next three decades?
Decades of their life rather than 30 days and back to where they were. Well,
that's a good segue into this stuff. We were talking about earlier. There's essentially simplistically to, so two types of gut bacteria and I called the good guys, your gut buddies. And then I call the bad guys, the gang members and they, they coexist and the gang members again. These guys send signals to our brain, the
Members love, simple, sugars, and saturated fats, and they actually tell your brain to go get these things. And one of the things that they're unique about is they're really good at making you fat. When you eat these things. They actually extract more calories and pass it on to you. On the other hand, the gut buddies. Hate simple, sugars, hate saturated fats. They
Like complex carbohydrates of fibers, and they actually take most of that and keep it from themselves, make more little bacteria and they tell you, hey, this is the stuff that we want to eat and so I can take a meat and potatoes guy and who sits loud, salads, you know, vegetables, lab, you know, I hate that stuff and kind of make him eat this stuff.
A couple of weeks and he'll come back and he'll go. This is bizarre. I've been taken over by a foreign life-form. He says I kill now to get a salad. If I don't get a salad, you know, I'm ready to push. Somebody out of the way to get him.
He says, this isn't me and I said,
well actually it is the new you you have been, you know, taken over by the gut buddies and they're now directing your taste. Let me give you one more exciting.
Example, there was a recent Chinese study looking at fasting, and there's a new Theory called the gut Centric. Theory of hunger that are talked about in the energy Paradox that's areas that these bacteria are actually guide, our food choices and our hunger, whether we want to eat or not, not our brain, not our willpower. So they took a bunch of volunteers and they put them on either a
14 day water fast.
Part of the group were given a hundred calories of Prebiotic fiber. That means we can't adjust it, but the gut bacteria can eat. And just a hundred calories. The guys who got the hundred calories. Prebiotic fiber. Even going on a 14 day water fast at. Absolutely no hunger. The folks who didn't get it were hungry and you go. Well, what's the deal?
Well, turns out the guys that got the Prebiotic fiber, their gut buddies said, thanks a lot were fed got what we need. You don't have to go looking for food in a way. That's a really a incredibly
exciting and actually powering. Wow,
because if we if we give them what they want, they'll take care of us,
why is it so hard to find truly comfortable air buds? Just like our fingerprints? No Trace.
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I got to know Jack LaLanne in his later years. Jack cloying was the Godfather of Fitness as far as I'm concerned and Jack LaLanne had an expression. He says if it tastes good, spit it out. Now all of my staff's, they will you stop saying that because now you're going to make people think that you want them to eat non tasty things. Well, he wasn't really saying that what he was saying. He didn't know back then is if
Eat for them. Yeah, then you'll take care of, they'll take care of you. And I think he was absolutely
right. Yeah, and it is that transition and it is it is crazy though that most of the stuff that's good for us is just a pallets, just not trained to like it crack, right? Like, that's just the way it is and I've found that as I've had my wife in my ear over the years. It's and she's like almost coached me and guided me through this from a physical health point of view.
I've seen my palate start to change and and it's changed around stuff that I was addicted to. Like. I was addicted to chocolate or sugar because that's what I grew up having. And so for me, now when I'm generally not eating any, you know, row sugars or whatever. I'm eating natural sugars and trying to remove it completely, but I can notice that my palette slowly started to change. It's taking a lot of time and effort. What are some of the tell us about some of this products and supplements that you've created.
To help this transition and I'm asking because, you know, I'm already like straight after this. I'm going to be coming to your clinic, to get checked out and get your help because I'm already, you know, fully what's the right word. I'm fully immersed in what you're saying today. Like I'm thinking through everything you're saying and I'm just so happy that you're doing this. It brings me so much. Joy that someone's actually speaking about these things in a scientific clear and researched way, because I think it's so needed today.
What tell me what you eat? First of all, on a daily basis, I think it'd be good for people to hear. What dr. Mark, Hyman eats, if you feel like sharing that with us and what was your journey to get there personally? Yeah, because you didn't know this, when you were born. You haven't been living like this, for no, but yeah, you make a good point.
And I use this example for my patients, you know, a little child in Japan doesn't come out of the womb wanting to eat seaweed totally and yet,
Almost from day one. They are exposed to seaweed and think it's the best thing there were hat. Yeah, and so almost all of our preferences are culturally driven and there's nothing wrong with culture there. You know, there's let's Embrace culture, but for instance, breakfast. Breakfast is actually a very modern invention. If you follow hunter-gatherers, there is no such thing as breakfast because there's no storage system.
You know, nobody's got a refrigerator. There's not even a cupboard. And so they have to find breakfast and breakfast means break fast and most of them don't eat until 11 o'clock in the morning. Interesting. I just got back from France. The French actually have no word for breakfast. Dejeuner was the first meal when all the tourists arrived they made up a word Petit. Dejeuner little
First meal. Yeah, and that's breakfast. But breakfast was an industrial revolution product. Men would have to go to factories very early in the morning. There were no breaks. There were no lunch breaks and they get home late at night. And so their wives would make them a breakfast before they went to work because they're going too fast. They were basically going to do Ramadan every day of their lives, you know, a pre-dawn
Dawn meal and then a post sunset Meal, which I write about him in the book Ramadan. Fasting is really useful, but that's beside the point. So the Kellogg's Corn Flakes company, which was founded in 1906 actually 1906. Wow. Yeah made breakfast cereal, the most important meal and interestingly enough. They and the United Fruit Company. Where the Chiquita banana
Physicians in the early, nineteen hundreds to tell people. The breakfast was the most important meal of the day. Yeah. And so, you know, it's again I lived in England training and children's heart surgery and the Brits were never exposed to serial until 1942 when, when the allies and when the Americans came over, wow, and I have a lot of patients from, for instance, the Middle East, they were
Never exposed to serial until 1960 and you can just watch our cultural spread takeover
and marketing Grand. Just great marketing.
It's addictive food too. Absolutely. It's really simple carbohydrates. All right,
so no, this is good. This is great. I love here. I love how you're able to your research and obviously your depth of knowledge of interweaving like history with food with culture with
You know, what's happening, economically. I just think that that's what I'm finding. So fascinating about this, I don't think I've ever sat down with someone who's broken it down in this way for me. And actually, when you start seeing that easy for anyone, listening to connect the dots and go. Oh, yeah, that is right. I only like that because of I was born in this area, or this is what we did or this, what my family did. Now I realize that that doesn't mean it's healthy or good for me. But yes, tell us about your diet and then I'm going to get you to analyze mine and I want to share with you what I eat for breakfast.
First lunch and dinner, and then I'll get you to break down what I need to change and I'd love that. So be honest with. So
for the last 21 years now, from January through June. I don't eat breakfast. I don't eat lunch during the week and I eat all at all and I eat all my calories in a two-hour window from 5:00 to 7:00 at night. So 22 out of 24 hours. I'm fasting.
You don't eat at all at all. Not even like a snack or a bar or nothing.
Wow, I have about
and you have a busy life just to clarify. You don't sit around on a beach all day. So I you're like today, you will, like I've got another meeting to go to like, well, I have so I you see patients. I see patients,
six days a week. I see patients Monday through Thursday, Friday. I'm at gundry MD here in La Saturday and Sunday. I have patients in Santa Barbara at my other office. So tomorrow Saturday. I will have a full patient schedule. Sunday. I will have a
Full patient schedule. So, six days a week. I'm seeing patients one day a week. I might go under EMD so and and I don't eat during those times.
How long have you been doing that 21 years. Wow, do you want? And so then in I
was actually, as far as I know the first person to write about intermittent fasting in my first book, dr. Gunner, he's diet Evolution. Yeah. It's actually hilarious story, but tell us. So I had an entire chapter on time restricted eating.
Intermittent, fasting, whatever I want to call it compressing, the eating window from when you start eating in the morning, till when you finish at night and there's more and more and more and more evidence that if we can reduce, that eating window to six to eight hours a day. Mine's eight right now. Yeah, six to eight hours a day. It's going to have profound short-term and long-term effects on our health, and we can actually measure that with
With some cool test called insulin-like growth factor and do that experiment on a person and watch their insulin-like growth factor plummet. So anyhow, so, I wrote an entire chapter in my first book in my editor. Heather Jackson. Said, look, this book is so crazy. Anyhow, this is nuts. And she's, so I'm going to cut this chapter. I said, no, no. No, you can't do. This is really important. You know, I've been doing this for five years.
Already and, you know, here's the data. Here's the research. It's, you know, it's proven in animals, blah, blah, blah. The Ramadan diet is a version of that. We know human studies, you can't do it and she said, I'll give you two pages to make your case. Wow. Okay, so she came up to me. I was lecturing at the Mind Body, green, Symposium two years ago, pre covid. And she was in
the audience and she came up to me. She has first of all, you know, congratulations on everything. She said, secondly, I have to apologize. She's you were right about intermittent fasting. You were so far ahead of your time. I apologize. Will you ever forgive me? I said, it's okay.
No, I'll never forgive you. That's good. Yeah, so it's very
powerful and literally the second half of the energy Paradox is to how to get people to implement this.
The problem with intermittent fasting 80% of Americans westerners are pre diabetic insulin resistant, whether they know it or not and their doctors, don't know how to diagnose it quite frankly and when people embarked on trying to extend the period of time where they're not eating they literally fall flat on their face. Yeah, they get headaches, they get weak. They get energy. Last energy is gone.
And that's because we can't convert from burning glucose sugar as a fuel to burning fatty acids as a fuel, and that's what's called metabolic flexibility. And if you want to live a long time, if you want to have a brain that works late into life, you have to have metabolic flexibility. You have to be able to change, almost like a hybrid car change from a gasoline engine with battery. And that's basically the analogy
Most of us are stuck using sugar as a
fuel and can we build that? Exactly. So
but you gotta, you can't just jump off the
cliff. Yes, of course. Yeah. No one needs to do that overnight.
Yeah. And so what I do in the book is say, okay, let's suppose you eat breakfast. Break fast at seven o'clock in the morning. Tomorrow. I want you to eat break fast at eight o'clock in the morning. Come on. Give me an hour and we're going to do that for a week. Okay? Now,
Next week we're going to do it at 9 o'clock in the morning and we're going to practice that for a week. It's like going in the
gym, you know,
you're not going to pick up 50 pound dumbbell and yeah do bicep curls.
Definitely and I can you oh, yes. Well, we
got to train you. So we have to train your mitochondria. You're in a
squash that eating time. Yeah, and
so over a six-week period we can get most people to having their break fast and
And then if I can get people to quit eating at around 7 o'clock at night, there's tremendous evidence that if we got a three-hour window before we go to bed, will actually have a period when we go to sleep called brainwashing, which I write about and Dale bredesen writes about, we literally clean the toxins out of our brain like a washing machine, but if we eat too close to bed, yes.
All the blood flow that would normally do that is down in our gut digesting and so, but that's what we, that's what we do. If we do this, in a stepwise progression. Yeah, it's also the same as weaning off sweet taste. Yes. Yes, you know, there are actually a number of good natural. No calorie sweeteners out there. I eat monk fruit month, is really quite good. So what I my new favorite is a Leo louse, because in how helos is actually a Prebiotic.
And it's a natural sugar. And what do they put it in for you to eat?
It's a it's a white powder, unfortunately, but yeah,
it's readily available now in a lot of stores. If not, you can find it online and it's a it's a really unique sweetener. Right? But one of the things you want to do is Retreat from sweet. And so if you're used to putting o a teaspoon of monk fruit in your coffee or whatever and your yogurt then
Then put it down to a half. A teaspoon won't be as sweet as you like but in a week or so you'll say you know, this is really quite sweet.
Well, then put a quarter of
a teaspoon. That's it's an easy way. Don't jump off cliffs because most people just fall flat on their face. They fail and they say, ah, this isn't for me. This doesn't work.
Yes. Yes, exactly. And then it's just a power of it's a battle of will power. And yeah, this should never
be
Be a battle of will power. And what I try to do is try to get folks to enlist the power of their gut bacteria. And if you, you know, if you start giving your gut bacteria, what they want to eat. I mean, it's just amazing what happens to people so it's just amazing. Yeah. It's really exciting. And that's why I see patients six days a week. You know, I'm like a kid in a candy
store. Emily.
Just tell you a real quick story.
Please we've got this young. We've got this young family in Texas mother with two child. Two children. The boy actually take care of both, boys. I saw this young man. When he was eight years old. He had such severe psoriasis on his hands and feet. That his hands and feet were bloody, and he had been just special as he'd been on drugs, and it was just the
That is thing. As mother sent me. Pictures of this. She said I carry my eight-year-old son around because he can't walk. You can't go to school. We've Been Everywhere. You know, can you help? And I said, yeah, so we looked and he had massive, leaky got and multiple autoimmune diseases, like psoriasis like lupus and we put him through. Okay, what are you sensitive to and put them?
On that program and he completely cleared up over a course of a year. And then he went to school. He started going to school and they were there was a birthday party at school and he ate a birthday cupcake and literally within days. He started having these lesions on his hands and feet. Yeah, and we checked, he completely sealed his leaky gut on his blood work. Wow, so we checked his
Blood work and boom, everything was kind of back to square one. So I just, that's incredible. I just talked to him on the phone this week and he's now 12. He's never met a
young patient. Oh,
I see lots of young kids and now he's in school. He's thriving is smart kid. He know, and mother, you know sends me pictures, his hands are normal and his feet are normal and you know, it's like no wonder I
I get up every day. Are you get it? Get this kid home. Mother was carrying him around because he couldn't walk because his feet were bleeding and he couldn't hold a pencil because his hands were bleeding. And that's beautiful. It's all because he had a leaky
gut. Yeah, that's incredible. Doctor gundry. You're going to have to come back for a pot to because I could talk to you for another hour, but we're running out of time. Oh, no, I'm gonna have to ask you our final five. We end every episode with a final five for
Five round. We have to answer each question in one word or one sentence maximum. It's really tight. So seven words sentence. So these are your final five. Dr. Gundry. The first question is, what is the best food diet advice you've ever
received? That's what I tell people, not eat. That's important more. I tell people what, not eat the better, their health.
Great second. What's the worst food? Dye advice you've ever received it?
Multiple small meals.
It's throughout the day to keep your energy up.
Okay, good question. Number three, what would you say is what I want to take. What is the first thing you do? When you wake up in the morning?
At my
dogs. Nice question. Number four. What's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12
months?
oh, and the last 12 months, the power of
Food to prevent covid. Wow, okay. And the
fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
Listen to your mother.
That's really inductor Gunnery. Thank you so much for joining us on. I'm puppies today on a recommend to everyone who's been listening and watching go and grab a copy of the energy Paradox, which is dr. Gondry's new book, and don't grab a copy of the plant Paradox. I promise you, you won't regret it. I know that I'm gonna be seeing dr. Condry.
A lot more after this. I'm hoping you make some time for me, but dr. Country. Would love to invite you back on for a part two. I think we have so much more to talk about and we've just scratched the surface. So thank you so much for your time today and thank you for sharing your insights with us, right? Happy to come back.
Yeah.
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