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at this altitude. I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking the millions you a personal question. I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.
Hello boys and girls. Ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Timber show where it is my job to interview and deconstruct world-class performers from all different disciplines in this case exercise science and it is very self-interested. I want to talk to this guest Andy Galpin about a reboot in the new year. What should I do to train for very specific things? What should I do to improve sleep Etc and so on and so on and so forth. So Andy Galpin who is Andy Andy Galpin is a tenured.
Full professor at California State University Fullerton where he is also co-director of the center for sport performance and founder/director of the biochemistry and molecular exercise physiology laboratory. He is a human performance scientist with a PhD in human bioenergetics and more than 100 peer-reviewed Publications and presentations. It turns out he has done research his team has done research on many things that have been on this show. I didn't realize some of it in advance. Dr. Galvin has worked with Elite athletes including All Stars all pros and MVPs.
Sai Yeung and major winners Olympic gold medalists and World Titleist and contenders across many many different sports that includes MMA. So for instance, you have see MLB NBA PGA NFL all the acronyms Olympics boxing military Special Forces and much more. He is also a co-founder of biomolecular athlete Vitality blueprint absolute rest and Rapid health and performance. You can find all things Andy Galpin at Andy Galpin.com and you can find him on Twitter and Instagram.
At dr. Andy Galpin spelled GA LP. I am just a few additional notes on this episode I asked and if he would be willing to provide a number of bonuses a number of resources that we could put in the show notes at Tim dot blog / podcast, and he very generously agreed those include some synopses overviews of the various training protocols that were mentioned in this episode specifically related to the prep for my skiing, but that applies to a lot more than
just skiing could apply to any number of different Endurance Sports or maintaining strength over a period of training just about anything. That's my interpretation not his he also agreed to include a number of different resources related to micronutrient testing and a number of different supplements that he feels pull their weight from a scientific credibility perspective with respect to endurance training and in my particular case training at altitude including skiing. We cover a hell of a lot in this episode we covered
Banking we talk about basketball tweets and how they tie into sports betting Believe It or Not testing sweat talk about using respiratory rate. So overnight respiratory rate, which you can figure out pretty easily as a proxy an indicator of many other things and last but not least. I asked Andy if he would be willing to provide a few Snippets anecdotes and explanations for a number of bullets that I didn't get to cover and he recorded those separately and I added those to this episode for you to enjoy and here
are those bullets number one doubling a client's testosterone by just changing what path he took for his morning walk. Number two curing a lifelong sleep disorder in 5 minutes for $22. And now please enjoy a very wide-ranging and very practical conversation with dr. Andy Gavin.
The honest reality is as I've mentioned several times now. Our approach is to have as comprehensive as testing as possible so that we can get the most precise and specific solutions that we can but the reality is that the vast majority of people will respond best through a multifactorial approach addressing all of the big rocks at once is almost always going to be required for people to get their best results that said having done this now really hundreds of times there have been some fun cases in which people have District
Markable results with extraordinarily simple and sometimes even cheap and really one change approaches. And so I do want to really reiterate that it those are the exceptions to the rule and I think that's important to State here because that stuff can be intoxicating it can really Drive confusion. That's like, oh my gosh, maybe all my problems are really just this one thing and that can happen. Of course. I'm about to show you some stories but really really really I don't want you to fall prey.
Pray to any thoughts. Sometimes that really this one particular thing I'm going to share is the cause of all human suffering ances cleaning out the case. So very first one is from a colleague of mine. Dan garnered Diane is a world renowned specialist in blood lab interpretations and really him performance. And so Dan was working with the client and the Dallas Texas area the client had done many of the right things and had a lot of success but was particularly interested in elevating his testosterone and so despite the fact that things were going
All that number was moving as high as that individual one and remind you. This is medication CRTs hormones things like that are off of the table. We're not medical doctors is not what we do and that's not what this individual wanted. So the question was can we do this without those options? And so Dan had kind of run him through many of the normal stops and we're still struggling to figure it out. And so we kind of went the next level with some of the biomarkers. We looked at and analyzed able to identify there was actually an allergic response happening to something in his environment.
Iron Man and you can actually differentiate if it's coming from environmental factors or other factors based on a handful of different blood markers. And so something was going on there and we didn't know what it was Nandan rather and we knew something was there and so long story short what ended up happening was it was actually responds to some of the trees that were in this man's neighborhood and he was basically allergic to those and didn't know it because it wasn't creating a sufficient of a response from to figure it out and it turns out that those trees were basically on one side of
His neighborhood and not the other one. And so the individuals basically start his day going outside and going for a walk and walk right through these trees and just kind of exacerbating at response and there's a known pathway there that'll leave the many things including compromising Sleep Quality, etc, etc. And that eventually was compromising his testosterone. And so really the ultimate change that was made was still continue to take those daily walks, but instead of walking out of the house and going right and walking around the block that way that he went out of his house turned left and walked a block in a different area. That was no
Longer exposing him to those trees. So you did that waited six or eight weeks or something like a the exact time domain and then testosterone was checked again, and it was almost doubled with that point. So again fun little story there a typical but absolutely possible and thing that we've seen a number of times over the years another really fun story. I like is from the sleep. Now. This is actually in a professional athlete that we've worked with and has happened more than one time. This exact thing has happened more than once.
Time and so really I'm taking kind of combinable multiple stories here. But when we do our sleep analysis, we're not just looking at your sleep staging in architecture. We actually able to identify what physical positions you are in so on your right side left side back Etc. And and one thing that stands out routinely is how Sleep Quality drastically differs in people depending on their position. So some people really struggle on their right side or the left side of the back side and it's very common for us to see people will have large percentages of their sleep problems in a
Single place and so again seen this multiple times and where people would struggle in this example was sleeping on their back and what were able to do for a very cheap price has to go on to Amazon and buy what effectively looks like a fanny pack in Reverse. So you can imagine a standard not the over the shoulder chest fanny packs, but the more traditional ones that just go around your waist like a belt and instead of having the pouch in front you flip it around and put it on your low back and that stops you from sleeping on your low back and forces the individual just
On the right side or left side, it's uncomfortable and it is weird for a few days or weeks. But really it was it's pretty quick for people to adjust to that. Now in this story. I'm referring to we were able to see over 90% reduction in sleep waking events in the very first night by simply putting that backpack on and that was not a fluke that has been sustained for weeks and months after that now the individual because it's been so long again. I'm many individuals here. Actually, they can really use sleep without the pack entirely or in certainly in no longer affects our sleep at all. They really
don't notice it and those reductions asleep waking events have persisted for months and months and months if not years of this point. And so we would kind of collectively so we have basically fixed that person sleep disorder that have been going on for years if not decades and certainly decades actually and about five minutes for I think the backpack cost like 22 bucks on Amazon or something like that.
Dr. Galvin Andy nice to see you nice to see you and I'm so happy to have this opportunity to do a podcast which is really a self-interested self-directed session with you in the guise of a podcast.
But anytime you can do something for yourself and only yourself and so when you
have a history of competition in a competitive athlete you have an extensive history of injuries, which have forced you to become creative. Well, you could have not been creative, but you had the capacity to
Think creatively about your own training and training and then you also have deeply technical foundations and that combination of competitive experience creativity and then technical capability. I think produces a lot of what you've been able to do which is why I'm part. I'm excited to have you here today for a lot of folks who are listening to this who have listened to many other podcast. Perhaps read many books. They think themselves for fuck's sake there are a million different things I could.
Could be doing and it's helpful. Even if it's imperfect to sometimes rank order things. I'll give you an example. So I've known Pavel Tatsu and for a long time perhaps best known as popularizing the Kettlebell in the United States by and large and his position would be strength first, right like focus on strength first that is the mother quality and then also important as we age for a host of reasons that I'm sure we can get into and then you can add in other things sort of below that let's just say top of the pyramid
Or bottom of the pyramid depending on how you look at it. How do you think about the cultivation of attributes training and how to prioritize those things?
I will acknowledge my bias. Yeah, I played college football. I got into the sport of weightlifting Olympic weightlifting is you may know it but technically called weightlifting. I enjoy that side of the spectrum much more than I enjoy anything else, right? So I'm a sport kind of guy. I don't really have as much love for physique bodybuilding stuff like this. It's always impressive but it hasn't gripped me because I'm always more interesting sport. So I value being able to hit a golf ball 350 yards being able to dunk a basketball to being able to skate on ice.
I like when people can do a whole bunch of things in a well rounded area. So that's my just personal preference at the same time. I acknowledge one other folks have a preference towards endurance or in that case physique that's important to understand because the way that I answer this question is built fundamentally upon my own bias as we'll probably talk about the entire conversation. We all have that filter and so we're all aiming at Allen's and it's just personal preference and I will do my best as the conversation of all still when I feel like that's a fair representation of the science.
This is just my personal preference. That's not always the same thing though. Sometimes it is so technically personally to me. You've outlined my injury history. I know you have just a touch
yourself. Oh, yes just a touch quite a collection.
I actually prefer the very first quality is you need to move. Well, what's that mean? Well, there's different definitions depending what you're asking your body to do but there are some colloquial standards, you know, you had Eric Christian recently surely obviously is just the foundation of the field and large part. So you guys covered a lot of that there but really you have to move well,
Joints for the most part have a fairly standard operating mechanism. So your shoulder is supposed to go through the certain range of motion. Your neck is supposed to be in a certain place your knees and your toes and all that stuff. So you guys can refer back to that that conversation but you have to move well secondarily on top of that after moving. Well, you have to be able to ask yourself. Well, if I'm not moving well why not and some of my papa is going to come back and say well in large part is because of the lack of strength if you're strong enough you move. Well, I actually agree with him on many many many.
Many things and that's one of them that said though. I think there's a little bit more Nuance there that I like to approach and so whenever I'm watching movement whatever that is to you whether you're surfing or you like jogging or you're doing Jiu-Jitsu whatever it is. I'm going to Joint by joint and I'm asking a handful of things almost for specific things per joint. Number one. Does it have appropriate stability. You can call the stability. You can call this strength. It is the same thing right your ability to control the joint to make sure it moves when you want it to move and when it doesn't move when you don't
Those things have to both be there. It's not okay to just move it when you want and then not control and don't want drive a car without brakes
total. You have
to understand that position. Right? So you can put whatever phrase on I call it strength others called stability, but it just is just control right? So is that joint under control is stable number two, and this is even prior to that. First one. Are you even aware? You'd be stunned how many movement dysfunctions and Mobility restrictions and things that I've seen on people and none of those are the case. They just don't even know that their foots pointer.
To the right or that their shoulders in the wrong spot. They have no idea not only where they're supposed to be but they don't even have the awareness where they actually are. So just letting you know. Hey, did you realize that your left foot is pointed forward your right foot is pointed 90 degrees which
just as a side note can be very surprising because I like to think and I do think I have a reasonably High degree of spatial kinesthetic awareness. Yeah, but I remember having some issues with my right big toe and I was doing a split squat type of exercise.
Hence, this woman who is supervising at the times that are you aware that your toe is pointing basically to like he was my right foot 10:00 on a dial if yeah, you're facing 12 and I was like what he's talking about and she took
photograph old like you were internally
internally rotating that's here way out because I didn't have the mobility in the big toe. And so I was dodging that by kicking my heel way out to the
outside. That's that's interesting almost always the case would be opposite. No kidding.
Right now so that you can actually get more into motion your
knees. Yes. I was doing the drop the hip and throw the straight right kind of totally position. Yeah, so not to interrupt but even for someone who thinks they know where their body is in space you'd be
surprised and we don't need to go off course, you're too much but the reality of it is you don't need to be perfect. Yeah, some level of asymmetry is absolutely fine. And in large cases with almost all of our professional athletes, you actually probably want some asymmetry is right. This allows you to create torque and to move and specific ways where if
You're a major league baseball pitcher. You need to be able to throw 100 miles an hour. We have to have some asymmetry is a golfer all of our folks on the PGA tour and stuff like you need those things. So when I say that I just mean roughly symmetrical. Just give me a ballpark. What's up ballpark? I don't know. There's no card cut line there, but you'll probably know when you see really bad I guess is the point and so number one was again. Are you stable number two was are you even aware of where you're at number 3 is do you have some sort of rough balance between
Front back left right on the left side of your body to the right side of your body to the front side of your body the back side of your body. What's that mean? Let's just say we're going with with Arnie right? Let's just say so with my right knee right? There you go. Let's do he's that example if I'm doing some sort of hinging activity and my right knee is doing something different than my left knee. Now I'm concerned is my right knee doing something normal to my foot is my right seed doing something normal to my right hip and so I'm looking not just at the movement pattern, but how is it relative to my life?
See the same pattern on the right knee in the left knee and that's a different problem under different solution. And if that pattern is exclusive to my right knee and so that's what I care about. So if there's some level of movement in your knee maybe that's normal if it's in both knees if its aggressive in one side was the other you almost always have some sort of compensation happening. Now, you got to run along algorithm are to figure out kind of what's happening. But that's what I'm after and then the final step is can you go through a full range of motion now that range of motion is different for every joint the
it does different things in the low back and the neck and fingers Etc. But you should be able to access full range of motion. We want to be able to produce strength and have control in those and ranges of motion without significantly compromising any other joint and that's really as complicated as it needs to be and so yeah, can your knee fully flux great can it do it with any load whatsoever doesn't have to be 600 pounds just a reasonable load and then can it do it without significant Compromise significant compromise in your ankle or hip or neck or
Else so really it's those four things if you have all that checked off, then really your joints can access any movement that you want on a reasonable control. So as long as you have that that is check box number 1, which is do you move? Well, mmm after that now we're going to play a game of okay great. If you do it on bilaterally, let's just keep using the lower body. So your knees are fantastic when I give you support So assistant, so your hands are on a table or I'm holding your hands when you're squatting or something like that. So if I take load off the
Mario do you check all four boxes? If you do an almond we're going to the next one. Now what happens when it's bodyweight only you still move. Well, great. Now we're going the next one what happens when we add speed now you ask that joint to move fast does it change is behaviors are
patterns? Okay, so you to speed before load. I mean you could say I guess it's adding load in its own way.
We'll just say additional external load. Yep, which could be gravity depending on I should have some that one. I'm fine switching out. If you want to go load first before speed absolutely fine, and it's really
1A 1B. Yep and a particular way, but you need to understand what's happening. The point is you want to do all that before you get to the last one which is now fatigue. Hmm. You don't want to load a system repetitively if it can't handle let's just say it's the knee and we're going to go for a jog. We know that even a moderate jog when you're in a single leg stance is going to put four five. Six times body weight on that load on the leg. So he's even a slow jog puts a lot of load on your right knee in this particular case when it's on that single foot stance, so it's a pretty
A high amount and now you're going to repeat that over five miles or two miles or one mile doesn't really matter if it can't do it. Well when you have your body weight in a unilateral stance, then we have a
problem and just for definition unilateral meaning here what one at a time. So
what I kind of skipped over was in that initial assessment, we're going to go through bilateral stuff first and then we're going to go through unilateral the second way which is the way to say. Alright, if you put your hands on a table. Can you do a squat?
And your knees and ankles moved correctly. And now what if I take your hands off the table now its body weight. And now what if I add load? Okay, great. Now what if I add speed now, we're going to repeat that whole thing basically by saying, okay. Now, let's do it one leg at a time. Yeah that it would be unilateral right? So maybe you move well bilaterally but also when we get not unilateral again one foot at a time now things collapse with speed or they collapse with load or they collapse it something else if I have failure points there then what the heck do you think is going to happen?
Put that thing under stress and fatigue. Mmm, you know the result right now again under fatigue. You're going to have some technical breakdowns. Let's just say that's a part of it. But we're looking for red flags. We're looking for egregious. We're looking for em, I really putting myself in a situation where you just asking for injury. It is anytime you're talking injury prevention ask and you can go on a million different directions of this. It's never about can you stop injuries from happening that is not a real thing is all about. Can you just reduce the likelihood and reduce the risk as much as possible?
Possible. So to Circle back to your initial question, like where does that pyramid of meal and that's initially how I'm thinking about it if you're moving well and you can do this unilaterally you can do this on a load you can do it fast and you can do it over fatigue, then you can really do whatever you want. The only thing you have to pay attention to is how you're defining fatigue. So this is not very practical. This is ideal.
But one of the things we use a lot in training is determining fatigue by technical breakdown rather than an actual you're going to run this many miles. Are you going to run this much time or you're going to click this much work it is how much can you do until we see significant break in posture and technique until you're on the air assault bike and you're all of a sudden hunching over now. Your chest is on the paddles in the front. We stopped at that point because what are we doing? We're potentially reinforcing a bad pattern. We're reinforcing an idea of when you get tired. Just go ahead and break posture.
We don't want those things right that never is going to be a win in our book. Occasionally. You're probably not talking under 10% of the time. I'll let it fly. That can't be the
pattern. Let's take this to the personal on my side. We're going to talk about Tim 4.0. I like it not even 2.0. It's not even two points like the shoulders I know is a while ago 4.0 which will hopefully involve fewer MRIs fewer emergency room visits and I'll lay out some of the basic specs and
Mysteries maybe and then we can go from there. So the the first I think will be time-bound in a way that will resonate with a lot of people listening and that is we're recording this in late December and in early January. I'm going to be looking to re-engage with all sorts of
training you and the whole rest of the
world me and the entire world and in this particular case, I do have two months blocked out for skiing and ski training and I've got lessons already booked with a technical coach. So I have the
The technical side let's just say it organized. I will be at altitude. I'll be doing ski touring in addition to downhill which I find very meditative. I also found very challenging cardiovascularly and so far so good. That is the same as last year and I made a ton of progress technically last year physically as well. Lots of great adaptations the big difference. Is that as we were talking about a bit before we started recording I've had effectively nine months.
Of D conditional and I've had this persistent sometimes crippling constellation of low back issues which thankfully are seemingly on the mend. Although I do have some questions for you about it. I'll give you sort of a laundry list of things that are going on. But before I get to that I wanted to say that for a lot of folks they're going to go through Cycles if they're not consistently competitive athletes of D training retraining at least for me as someone who used to be very competitive and various Sports. There's a
higher risk of believing that I'm 15 or 20 or 25 again attempting to do things I used to do and getting myself into trouble. So this was the broad question is if you were coaching me sort of how would you have a conversation about training maybe program couple of wrinkles. So the first is that I know my low back is an example on probably a lot of the posterior chain is weak because I've avoided anything that would potentially be to inflammation and I've had a million and one different diagnosis of this lobe.
Compression sensitivity, which I do think is the thing some stenosis at L4 L5 on the right side, etcetera Etc. However, I've been told by number of folks like inflammation is not the issue. However, when I address inflammation symptoms by and large vanish, I was on like meloxicam and all sorts of anti-inflammatories for period of time ended up doing an extended fast a few. Let's just call it two months ago. So week-long water fast and in combination with a few
The things complete remission of symptoms for weeks and that raised a lot interesting questions. When I am training for two months unlikely. I'm going to take a week to fast water fast I could but it would present some challenges. So I'm trying to figure out how to approach things recognizing in my older years, which I did not perhaps recognized in my younger years that there's a high potential for injury here. If I approach it the wrong way a few other notes last season when I was skiing. I noticed that I got more chatter.
My right leg so if I took like a carving turn to the left, I would get more chatter on the right leg and it's like oh that's very interesting and my left leg. I have noticeably larger say calf on the left leg, but I did a dexa scan recently and overall. I have more muscle mass on the right side. I was like, okay, that's interesting. So I was like, it seems like I have more muscle mass on the right side, but I'm having a lot more chatter meaning stuttering on the slope that the curves aren't as smooth. My priority is skiing. So if that means it's to my benefit
It for relative strength and skiing to lose some upper body mass. That's fine with me. I don't care. Where would you start
in this particular case? If you're just listening, I can't explain to you. How big of a smile I have on my face during that whole thing. This is what we live for right? This is exactly what I like to do. Now. You can take a couple of approaches here small the bigger big too small. I think you know where I'm gonna go. Yeah, here's how all of our coaching goes. This is exactly what I do for anyone that comes to any of our programs in our coaching programs.
I want everything. I want to collect everything on you. And that's going to allow me to stop messing around.
I would love to do a full battery and gather everything from my cuticles to my you know, my chest hair and do the 100% analysis. And the reality is you're here for a day you're taking off and then I had to the undisclosed high altitude location in let's just call 10 days. So chances are I won't have an opportunity to do.
Do all of that. So be curious to know given that constrain I realized I should do it but given the constraint what you might recommend in the
interim. Yeah, where are those places? You might start. Let's start with maybe you want me just cover a couple of really specific short ones that do that those could try. Okay and a very easy one that almost everybody has access now, that's not everybody many people have access to if you have any sort of reasonable tracker.
Of any kind respiratory rate is a phenomenal insight into everything that's happening in your body. I would make the argument that blood work would be the most important thing that one can do here. If done appropriately even cheaper and easier in that respiratory rate will tell you a ton of stuff. So what we're talking about is how many times you breathe from it and specifically overnight. So if you can measure your respiratory rate overnight, you'll have a great inside what's happening. A lot of stuff can be explained. Here's roughly why when you take a breath in
You're bringing in oxygen when you exhale that releases CO2 at all times, you're playing this oxygen to CO2 game oxygen is primarily responsible for regulating cellular metabolism energy. CO2 is meant to regulate PH and does a lot of different things. But that's the primary mechanism CO2 then has a bi-directional relationship between Psychology and Physiology meaning a psychological stressor got really excited and really happy got upset can cause alterations in the physical body, right?
Maceo to exercise movement any physical stressor increases CO2 concentrations, but that will then be registered psychologically as hey be more alert be more focused be more anxious all those things. And so when you see an increase in CO2 concentrations that are developed from any tissue, that's the same muscle that increase in CO2 concentrations in the blood that is then registered as energy is going out physically. So let's be prepared psychologically again more focused all those things. And so your body is constantly measuring
CO2 and paying attention was happening. And this is good. Right. This is one of the main mechanisms in which our body switches us up and down through the autonomic nervous system. And so on one end of the spectrum, you've got sympathetic drive. This is fight or flight. This is freeze. This is awake alert anxious all those think it's important understand that's not good or bad. That is just a thing that happens, right? So as you and I are sitting in this conversation, we should be a little anxious. I want to be hyper Focus. My eyes need to be narrowed on you. I shouldn't be having a panoramic view. Adrenaline should be up I guarantee.
Cortisol levels are little bit. That's the point right the tools in the toolkit. Yeah, parasympathetic is the other side that's rest. I just that is lethargic that is depressed. That is all those things right? So right now we want to be alert like this and when we're done tonight and go to sleep. We want to be very parasympathetic and lethargic amazing. Will CO2 concentrations are driving. It's not the only thing but it's one of the main things driving we're out of that spectrum and this is why things like CO2 tolerance, which we studied in my lab are connected to State and trade anxiety. They are.
Connected to a lot of different things and so this is Brian Mackenzie Brian. He's done this for probably a decade. We really spent a lot of time on co2 for long time. It'll tell you a ton of what's going on that then drives respiration because the primary thing remember CO2 is all is regulating pH. And so when your body senses CO2 concentrations are getting a little bit higher it's going to tell you ventilate breathe now if we were to have you hold your breath to say take a breath in and hold it eventually you start feeling that are Hunger and
Like Panic to breathe that desire to breathe and eventually if you hold it panic panic panic unless we're at altitude or something weird that sensation is not being driven by running out of oxygen. It's driven by increasing CO2 suzu right CO2 concentrations is why you have to have carbon
monoxide sensors. Also, I need to be careful about shallow water blackout. If you're doing a bunch of crazy breathing
exercise. This is why you don't want to hyperventilate before those. You're supposed to be saying. All right, CO2 concentrations are elevated in my system. Therefore I'm becoming acidic. So therefore I need
to start ventilating more so that I breathe more I dumped out more CO2 that lowers my CO2 concentrations in my body and I'm back to normal hyperventilation is specifically exhalation. So additional breathing. We're no longer meets metabolic demand. So I'm breathing more than I need to be breathing if you and I were to sit here and hyperventilate. All right, which done plenty of times that's putting you in a state of hypocapnia soaked apnea is the science word for CO2 hypo meaning low. So you've lowered your CO2 below normal this causes what's called respiratory alkalosis?
Right. You've remove CO2 you remove acid. You become more alkalotic, right so asset to one side closest on the other side great. Now I'm response to that. One of the major things that can happen is your kidneys will then start altering bicarbonate which is the way you regulate PH as well causing tension Ali at least even temporarily metabolic acidosis because the entire system is supposed to be balanced. So now you've already altered pH in a number of different areas you've altered what's happening through albumin you've altered bicarbonate you
Answered all of these things. If you were doing that in the short term that gets too low. We have all kinds of issues with blackout you do that in water, right? We're gonna have a huge problems right people because people die people die all the time given this not good
you want the urge to breathe if you are getting to the point where you need to
breathe. Yeah for sure. It's a good idea. If I'm under breathing then we get hyper capitec bank. And so what's supposed to happen is you increase the YouTube concentrations you get a little bit of hypercapnia. This sends signals says,
Timur flexors jump off and they say breathe Mark. So you breathe in when you dump your CO2. That's awesome. So that rate of respiration or how often your breathing is supposed to be driven by a number of things. But in this particular case, let's call it CO2 if your respiratory rate gets high we are now putting ourselves in hyperventilation. It's not clinical hyperventilation. And this is a story that will unfold so many times. There's a just because you don't hit clinical markers. So disease does not mean you're an optimal physiology.
Yeah,
right. Right, right. Yeah, those reference ranges changed a lot too. Right man. I could I could I could spend hours on
this is a fact that we want to do right with all of our stuff. We don't use reference ranges for anything. Yeah, we have our own high performance standards. I'm not an MD. I don't do anything medical or disease related everything from our perspective is from their perspective of enhancing Human Performance. So going from good to great going from where's your risk factor disease? I don't care about that's like go see Peter Tia like I
I can't help you there. Yeah, again, we take hundreds of biomarkers and I don't think I've ever measured a point B in my life. Yeah never will. This is not your game. Not my game. I don't know medicine. We do high performance. So you want to go from good to great. I got you risk of 20 or disease. I don't know just exercise don't come to me point is I'm watching that respiratory rate if that thing starts to exceed 15 breaths per minute or so overnight. I have a pretty good indication that you're over breathing now is this again clinical hyperventilation? Probably not. I don't know.
No, not for me to even call but I can certainly tell your over renamed because at that point for most people your breathing more than your metabolic need. You have a preferred
tracking device for
that a little bit of insight house. Here. We use our own so my company absolute rest or sleep company. We have a very very high quality one that not to pitch on this but
the reality is a usuals you should pitch in if it's good. Just give a second option for like the second class.
Well, the reality of it is ours is by the time this comes out ours will probably be available. It's a couple of hundred.
Donna tracker it is a clinical sleep lab setup on your and your house with wireless, but that's our Technologies. You probably seen people with the polysomnography sleep stuff like sure all over the place ours is entirely Wireless, you know doing those things. So for a couple hundred bucks, you can put that on and we actually are against absolute rest absolute rest that company. Oh we are able to run 150 Hertz, which means we're measuring 150 times per second. Most wearables are going to measure once every 5 minutes something like
That yeah, so like our Fidelity's is just a touch higher which means we are catching a whole bunch of things. This is by the way an FDA-approved device so we can actually set a second ago. We don't do any medical that was a bit of a lie. What is this company for
diagnosing Sleep Disorders? Okay. So the indication
is we can clinically diagnosed with disorders in your own home in your own bedroom for you and a box at this point so that can be done with that. We have tremendous insights because we're getting every single breath. We're not missing any breath.
And HRV heart rate variability is also the highest standard possible and we're getting overnight although so you can pick other trackers. Those are all going to be in the same price range. So there's really no difference. Anything you have is probably fine almost everyone has something watches Rings bands, whatever of different scenarios you can get any of those. I'm trying in my head. Is there like a zero cost option or respiratory rate? I mean you could certainly measure it you get
It closed actually you'd probably overestimate it if you just little use the stopwatch and just measure it how often you're breathing during the day. I got a calm resting state. My guess is you'd be a little bit aroused so you'd probably be over breathing a touch. So that might give you a little bit of a false sense, but you could try it that way that we get you close.
Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by a G1 the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement and the true answer is invariably a G1. It's simply covers a ton of basis. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is h 1 kg one is a science driven formulation of vitamins probiotics and Whole Food Source nutrients in a
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Um, check it out.
Do the the Rings and watches etcetera do a comparable job to a chest strap of sometime.
It depends on what you're measuring the beauty and benefit of how something directly on your chest is not only do I get to measure respiratory rate directly, but I get to measure respiratory depth which is an entirely underutilized tool
because written by depth a means of chest expansion. That's correct.
Yeah, and that's going to tell us a lot about what's going on. That's we do that too.
That's put on there. Not at that insanely low price point but at our other Mark our full immersion part that that's going to get measured as well. We don't miss anything for the most part. Yeah, so do they know nah, that's reality is
no ya gotta okay, so you can use both. I mean just for people listening. Yeah. I mean, there are folks out there doing probably spend a lot of time just on like respiratory muscles. Oh for sure and so on but you were saying just to lead back after I interrupted.
Things that people can potentially do. Yeah right outside of the full
monty My Hope was you have something we can get a rough sense of respiratory rate because this Factor alone and just numbers wise throw it out there again, I always look at 15. There is actually excellent research on 16. There's actually recent study that came out that was quite interesting on College freshman, I believe and they looked at respiratory rate and they found that for every increase in one breath per minute. So you went from 14 breaths per minute to 15 to 16.
There's a 25% increase in likelihood of experiencing moderate to high stress and that was independent of a number of sleep markers. Sleep latency is the qualities of timing duration things like that. And so if you're using a sleep tracker of some sort and that's not changing but you're still feel like you're experiencing stress or some of these other Downstream things. You will note it in respiratory rate. You will see that move generally before it is more sensitive. It's like if you've ever used resting heart rate as a metric for if you're kind of overdoing things or where to go.
It's okay, but that is a lagging indicator HRV is more of a immediate indicators HRV would be superior the Fidelity and change of HRV is much higher blood is even higher than that. It's faster. It's in tell you what's happening before HIV response typically, but you would have HRV like resting heart rate would be another rough way to do that respiratory rate, which is going to be even faster. It's very happens. Really really really quickly. You're going to have a change overnight the most part if you get a cold if you have a few drinks tonight if things like that
You will see a change in respiration almost immediately. If you cross that 15 to 16 and you continue to go up you see dramatic increases in risks of all kinds of disease States, in fact the line again on the research and I'm kind of summarizing the entire field really it starts to break around 15. You will see reference ranges that say 12 to 20 is normal. I could pound that one as much as you
want. No, that's all right. I mean we could replace normal common, maybe but yeah, right.
I want to see it ten or eleven ten or love that's the number to beat now. There is genetic components to it and some other things but used if a anytime I see above 13, I'm probably taking action.
So let me ask question. I wanted and the action is where I'm going next. And before I get there, I'm curious if the arrow of causality here is bi-directional or unidirectional sense that when you exceed a certain sum total of allostatic load respiratory rate goes up presumably that's what I'm gathering, right?
Can you reduce your overall allostatic load by targeting the respiratory rate directly or do you need to address the some components? I suspect it's both end. But I'm curious if by addressing the respiratory rate directly for instance through meditation breathing practices. Does that help to reduce the sum total of that allostatic load or do you have to go back to the puzzle
pieces? Okay. Is it just an indicator? No. No. So here's where it's fun. Excellent research on this for a long time 20 plus years of data on this physiology recognizes patterns the same.
Happens with sleep. I could give a ton of examples here happens anything else. But if your respiratory rate is elevated that could be an acute or chronic response and it could be independent of the original causality. Which means let's say you had a really traumatic event couldn't be not traumatic. So you want a big game you got excited. It doesn't matter positive or negative some sort of big event in the state of that. You went into sympathetic drive that then elevated respiratory rate if that pattern is sustained.
That continues to hold place even when you remove that initial stressor, so childhood trauma sure period of extensive work completing a dissertation having a child any of these things again is not - it could be good or bad that pattern can absolutely stay independent of the stressor being
removed sounds a lot like pain signal or anyway,
Everything is Everything my man in here like this is why I love physiology. It's gonna tell you the story right? And so we
A little bit of a triage here. I look at your stuff and ICU respiratory rate 17 rest for a minute. That's all right. I'm gonna look back through history of physiology. Do I see any other indicators of acute stress? I'm gonna look at blood that's going to tell me a lot was going on. I can differentiate whether that stresses acute or chronic based on various markers. I'm going to ask you we're gonna have conversations. When did you start noticing any signs and symptoms of low back pain kicked up Kate anything happen around them what's going on? Right? We're going to figure this stuff out. It's very important when you measure physiology. You always need to understand.
Symptomatology like you're working with humans. You're not working with blood markers. Then this is always the case. And so if you have historical data, this is one of the benefits of tracking over time. We can look back and say okay. There's an uptick here your respiratory used to be 12. And now it's up here now with 16. When's the breaking point you don't have any of those things fine? It doesn't really matter because we have to clear action steps we can take in either of those cases whether we have an acute specific thing we're doing right now that's causing it or whether this is some pattern.
From 10 days ago to 10 years to it doesn't really matter right number one. You know, what here's a free version you can generally get a good sense of somebody's respiratory rate is high if they tend to feel very very good during light or low intensity exercise. You know, why why because their metabolic rate now starts to match the respiratory rate. So if you're breathing at 16 breaths per minute, that's about 4 seconds right ratio, but you take 15 breaths in a 60-second window right is about every 4 seconds to Second inhale to Second exhale.
Right on the map there. So if you are now going for a light jog doing Zone to Zone 1 like low level activity may be just walking. These people are not always but oftentimes can't stand going a day without exercise. They got to do some movement. I got to get a sweat in some day a lot of the times those people's respiration rates high. They can't go a day without it because I feel tremendous when they're doing a low level activity because now they're finally at a heart rate that's matching the risk that smashing respiratory rate. And so what happens CO2 concentrations are normalized and you feel
And you don't do that you go back into this is again. This is never perfect. There's no Panacea here. There's no magic recipe with physiology ever. So I don't oversell it. But it's very common in our rapid health and performance program to have people like this who are just like I can't not work out I get too much anxiety get two months and then you looking like, uh, I don't need to see your laps. I can predict your respiratory rate. I can predict your HRV. I can predict these other thing and they feel great there. And so what is the solution in any of these cases number one? We have to reduce it.
Arousal, which means you no longer get headphones when we exercise you no longer get headphones when you're walking you're not going to put in a podcast when you're going out to take the dog for a walk. We have to reduce input and you have to in this is there's great work here from Emily Hightower. She has a course called skill of stress. It is fantastic. She's actually Brian MacKenzie's partner phenomenal Emily is a great resource. She's on our team as well. Now I said part, but she will talk about. Hey, we need to read
And regulate which means you need to read your physiological State you need to be aware that you're over breathing. You should be the read that state and then you need to be able to regulate it. So what we're doing is reducing input and so whatever it is any physical activity not as a hard and fast rule, but for the most part we need you to be bringing senses out and paying attention to what's happening to your respiratory rate in this particular case. So reducing arousal step. Number one. This could be pay no more work at night. This could be like a lot of the very classic stuff. You're doing too many things.
Is that bring up arousal at night or throughout the day? We could insert some specific down regulation in the middle the day any number of ways we can go about this but we want to have some point particularly after the place where we have the highest sympathetic Drive throughout the day your most focused and intense work session your most physical session and we're going to match that on the back end with an intentional down-regulation
piece.
What are your favorite levers to pull and I'm sure it's customized but just broad Strokes with your high-performing athletes and so
on for now regulation post. That's right. Yeah, the easiest by far is give me two to seven minutes of just quite dark. So we typically ask them to do some breathwork post exercise, which is a simple as
Turn the lights off lay on your back put a towel over your eyes turn the music off and just breathe for five minutes. If you want to follow a specific Cadence and do something like box breathing fine. If you want to do it like a double exhale, which means say a four second inhale eight-second exhale. So you're going to extend it exhale which is down regulatory typically find if you're super into that stuff. If not, just quiet and calm chill the fuck out and breathe chill out.
Just like bring it down. There's actually some initial data on that can accelerate adaptations to exercise is post-exercise down-regulation. It's not a extremely strong area of science is just a few papers, but nonetheless it's enough for us to say. Okay, what we want to do is take that high sympathetic drive and then we want to basically expand your boundaries. So right now your boundaries of up and down are narrow and we want to bring it way up with exercise in terms of sympathetic Drive really high and then I want to match
it with the downside and so is equal opposite reaction. If you got to a 7 out of 10 sympathetically, I want you to seven out of ten are synthetically that's going to increase your ability to go up and down not always the case. Some people have the opposite problem. This is far more complicated. But broad Strokes wise its more common for us to ask that then it is the opposite by doing that you are contributing to retraining breath rate. And so that is the second step. So first up was reducer.
I was on you can s 1 is retraining breathwork. If you want to do something like that just do very light level exercise. But instead of doing just a movement where intentionally keeping a breath Cadence and so we're regulating we're saying you need to learn to breathe at three second and he'll 3 S XL and so we're going to do whatever exercise you want. I don't care go as hard as you want. I don't care but we are capping your inhalation and exhalation
right? So that would be 3 seconds in three seconds. I would be certain that. Let's just call it.
10:50 target range. Yeah
breaths per minute. There you go. That's the idea and you can kind of do that. So you take a combination of approaches there to figure out what's really happening and that solution can be very quick could be a little bit longer. We're certainly and to be really clear not bullying down any or all mental health things into District your breath rate. You'll be fine. I guess it's not even close that simple but is something from our physiology side that there were really paying
attention to
Okay, so hopping back to Tim 4.00. Yeah, we got a little far off. We know we didn't get off track man. This is the these are all interrelated. But if I'm going to head his altitude in this is called 710 days. I've already made a couple of what I would consider risk reducing decisions such as giving myself a week before intensive training to acclimate a bit to altitude because it always will affect my sleep for the first handful of
days. What kind of rough ballpark me out to tell you talking here 10,000
Yeah, let's call 10,000. Yeah, okay. So up. Typically I've elevated heart rate for lots of yep straightforward reasons sleep is compromised. You try blah blah blah curtain number one would be sort of reducing risk of injury right for me. And then because the down a professional skier, but even if I were I suppose I would be number one but given what I've mentioned and I'll say I just a few more things in case they're helpful. I realize this is a little bit of it's not as comprehensive as I would like, but what I've observed pattern wise, they're kind of two things.
That once one is like minimizing likelihood of the back becoming a major problem, which it was last season. I'd have to stop midslope and like pick up one leg to try to like relief pay. It was Yad. Yeah, and there were days when I just couldn't even ski because I hadn't slept the night before we have been tossing and turning back pain, right? So few things that have helped some of which are easier to implement than others. So the first thing I've noticed very clear over the last nine months more time spent sitting the more back issues and when I
Did some testing with Eric cressey just basic stuff, right? But if I'm sort of in a flexed position and I do compressions on a chair or extended doesn't really bother me if it's straight up and down for lack of a better way to describe it compression sensitivity. So he'll drop test fucking hate it. Well, you're very sensitive. Yeah and other things that may or may not be helpful certainly if I'm working and this is a lay person speaking to keep that in mind folks but sort of the antagonistic
Summit if I'm doing core work of any type Pilates Etc that tends to significantly alleviate the lower back issues Stuart McGill style kind of the four fundamentals big for exactly, especially the side planks seem to alleviate a lot of the what I would tend to describe is just like overall like you l-spine erector tightness on the inflammation side interestingly.
I can gobble anti-inflammatories like Tic Tacs. It does not seem to help much ice and ketones really help ketones only in a fasted state but ketones and is tremendously helpful with some durability. I mean ice that effect lasts for longer than I would have guessed. So anyway, those are a few things, but I'm going to be at altitude in 10 days at some point. Certainly I definitely will talk about this after we stopped recording but would love to test the absolute rest.
That's all I'm gonna get.
Very very interested in that because the also like the polysomnography stuffs like your first nights going to be dog shit right with all that stuff hook to and then like it's easy to corrupt the data.
How much do you want me to shit on polysomnography because I
cam no no save it is
it is an absolute disaster and borderline useless. Yes. Let's save it
will give people that but 10 days. I'm at altitude. How would you in lieu of since we won't have time to do all of this testing first?
I am going to pay much more attention to the respiratory rate. I suspect - elevated my resting heart rate. Also chronically, I mean or a nation's economy, but for as long as I've ever paid attention to it higher than desirable. Well, you're a
data guy. Yeah, we got to have data that we can use
right now. Yo, yeah, I mean I have certainly I'm sure we can declare
- all of our special preferred markers and all that but I bet we could get a really strong sense of what's Happening based on what you have on your phone. You certainly do some sort of tracking at this point.
Your sleep
so I haven't used say or ring Etc in a while just because I the main takeaways were like yet don't drink before bed. Maybe don't drink at all. So right I mean I there were a few things that I took away from it and I was like,
this is the problem right? There is a significant difference between you don't have a clinical sleep disorder and you're sleeping great. Are you familiar at all any of the research on sleep extension
sleep extension? Yeah. I don't think so.
Oh my God, like it's so insane if you want to understand your risk of disease 30 40 50 years.
Okay. Yeah, I don't sleep four hours a night. That's great. If you want to look at what happens with disease markers between seven hours sleep a night in eight hours. Okay. It's not a convincing argument there. Right? So the take-home message there is don't have horrific sleep but that is not nearly the same as optimizing your performance the data on what goes from good to great sleep on optimizing performance are strong. There is a ton of research on specifically high-performing athletes and a number of areas. There's at least four studies. I'm aware of in the areas of will call Sleep banking or sleep extension.
Banking is such that before going into exposure of either restricted sleep high intensity or hydration training or both what happens when you Banks leap ahead of time get more than more than normal right parenthesis. And so a lot of these data are looking at things like going into fight Camp. Okay going into training camps. We know that we have a combination of increased training and so by that fact alone. Our interior is because gone up and reason training camps are higher.
Coming in somebody conditioned just playing a part of it you doing a high-intensity a high volume at the same time. Now, we also know in the side sleep goes down significantly during those phases of intensified training, which you're about to go do right? Yep. So we're ten days away. We know that this is happening and we know your injury risk is going to quadruple. Yeah during this phase. So that's roughly what is going to happen. Now a bad night of sleep is irrelevant. That's not going to read increase your injury risk that much.
If you look at and the research again is not insanely strong here, but there is an association with risk and sleep. And so the number one thing I'm thinking is okay. You already mentioned you said it a couple times you sleep isn't great when your altitude for obvious reasons. Yeah for the first week or two, right? We need to make ahead of time like starting tonight. We need to maximize sleep as much sleep as humanly possible. The number here is 10 hours to get to 10 hours of sleep. We need to get ahead of that curve, right? We know it's going to happen and we know that for altitude we have first night effect.
You never sleep particularly. Well the first night in a new place and all those things and we know in altitudes going to have those physiological issues. So we need to bank that that sleep banking can get a head sleep extension is taking good and going to grave sleep. There's a handful of studies again in probably five ranging from 45 minutes of extra sleep per night for three days all the way up to two plus hours a night of additional sleep for five to seven weeks data on Rugby players high-level endurance cyclists division one basketball players.
One swimmers potentially missing other one but enough here for 56 studies from different Laboratories looking at different metrics. You're going to see improvements in particular one is actually classic Cherry ma study, you're talking about two hours of additional sleep per night and people already sleeping. Well the caveat with all this is we're not looking at sleep deprivation, which is you know, you went 24 hours straight without sleep or what we call Extreme sleep restriction. So you suffer for hours or three hours you're talking about people already sleeping reasonable amounts of time and now you're adding this 45
Five minutes to up to two hours a night now in doing that you're seeing and Sherry's initial study 9% Improvement and free-throw shooting accuracy. This is in division one basketball players same thing with three-point shooting accuracy improvements and reaction time. Now, these are actually not done in a single time. So they're looking at is kind of like, I think they shot free throws kind of in practice every day. They track that number over the course of the Season kind of thing. So not like just one particular good day of shooting or bad.
with any of this stuff
and all science has limitations. These are not perfect studies and this particular case. They don't have a control group. You'd also soon people get better in season like that happens but a 9% Improvement in Elite athletes of a skill. Let's say it was 50% Hi, let's say with 75% high like you're still talking to three four five percent Improvement, which is really really impressive right there are data on NBA players and they're tweeting activity. So how much they tweet
Same as a defunct a measure of like who's asleep and who's not and that can predict almost 2% of shooting accuracy the next
day. I'm just imagining all through the quads are going to go out and start betting on games now based on analyzing tweet volume. So and timing
no Sherry, actually, I think something clever. I don't know her at all, but I've seen her so I think she worked for ESPN for like three years and she did this thing where she would predict NFL games like who would win or lose based strictly on circadian rhythms.
And I think she's like 70 to 80
percent for three year span. That's
wild Stephen lockley who's actually work stops the rest of us. He's done a ton of this work. So there's things to pay. We're so off track here, but this is too fun. I'm coming back to a point to your ski thing here a second. I promise. I don't promise. I Loosely promise I'll hold you to it. All right. So what you want to pay attention to his sleep is sleep duration, of course, all that stuff is great. So quality. This is where polysomnography becomes really problematic like defining Sleep Quality is really challenging. Yeah. It's not the same thing.
Let me ask you a question related to sleep and maybe we'll we'll dive in further into this but few things with sleep banking I would imagine there are people out there and this would include me who would say I kind of wake up when I wake up and I might feel tired but I'm not sure how I would be physiologically capable of extending my actual sleep. I could extend my time in bed, but I'm not sure of how to extend its that's let's just make that part A Part B is very specific which is
be curious to know your thoughts on caffeine best ways to reduce or get off caffeine because what I noticed recently I did 30 days with no caffeine 0 its first time I've probably done that since I was 16. Oh, yeah Zero caffeine OT no nothing for 30 days. All of my sleepy shoes went away like resolved magically right course and what was fascinating to me. Is that prior to that I would often try to fix my sleep issues by attempting to sleep more.
More
time in bed. I was in a hopefully this is smart enough if I were tossing and turning I just get up right it's as opposed to just suck suffering for an hour or two in bed. What I noticed when I got off the caffeine is that I in many cases was quote unquote sleeping
less, but I
was going to bed earlier much earlier and I was going to bed in this case like 9:00, 9:30, 10:00 waking up a lot earlier but waking up Wide Awake. Yeah. No fatigue. No.
Dragging ass. No, I need a cup of coffee. So the two questions are for people who are listening and are doubtful. They would be able to extend their sleep. What are some options that includes me right now because I'm back on the sauce and we could dissect that. It's been a fucking nutty last 10 days. I'll spare you the the drama but a lot of things have happened in life that were unexpected. So my soothing mechanism has been drinking caffeine. I'm willing to get off of it. But now I have to do it when I'm in real life, whereas before I had four weeks off the grid and it was gone.
He's always see ya.
So for people who are unsure of how they would bang sleep because they're doubtful that they could extend their sleep some options and then thoughts on caffeine or getting off
of caffeine. Yeah, this is why an appropriate measure of Sleep Quality
matters to figure out just what you're working with. So, I
mean, yeah, you have to write so that is depending on what wearable art rack are using that is defined differently by everybody. Mmm. I would caution you against two major things here one worrying about
Sleep score do not pay attention to that. Right that is in part. Almost all those are calibrated against polysomnography. And that is somewhat arbitrary right even in 2007. They actually change the I think it's like the American sleep Society or something. Yeah change their definition of what deep sleep is so moving Target. But yeah
and polysomnography for people who don't I mean, this is what we were referring to earlier like sleep lab bunch of stuff stuck in your
scalp quote unquote gold standard.
But what people don't know about that is number one those things change and then to all even in a sleep lab. Those are based on 32nd epochs has right. So what happens every 30 seconds and if somebody goes dinner manually grades and decides this was a cut-off line. This was not a cut-off line. And so you're being still subjectively scored even on like you went in the lab you wanted to sleep clinic you did the whole thing is a little bit nasty. So so what should you pay attention to different ways to go about
that and do have an ordering I could wear one prior. I mean I could
put one on but tonight or tomorrow and we use or for the
curd with almost everybody for many reasons have used historically. So this is nothing against them whatsoever. But even or is matched against polysomnography when they say the 99% accurate or 80% accurate. It's against PSG, which I don't think is telling you the story the second part about that is problematic is think about it this way if I asked you when we had this entire conversation about training you said hey, I want to train for my ski thing what I trained the same way for this two months to skiing physically train as I would if that was now a marathon if that was just I want to feel better my
Fine sir, if that was on a gain some muscle and the obvious answer is clearly. No. Yeah, we have the same conversation about attrition. But yet when we think about sleep, it's just yeah sleep more right if you want to get better sleep. If you want to get better nutrition in your particular case. You would hire probably somebody who's done performance nutrition for skiing. You would hire a high-performance person for your physical training and sleep or in a this type of skiing and some like that when it comes to sleep. It's like go to sleep lab and get a doctor, but that's all we have your right and so
So we don't think about sleep is a high performance tool when I'm saying that to say why do you think your sleep stages should be the same every night doesn't make any sense what I expect your muscles to perform the same way know what I expect your nutrition be the same. Absolutely not so not only to be really cautious with the Sleep score but even worrying about how much time you spend on each one of those sleep stages based on a Tracker is highly problematic. Yeah. Each shouldn't be the same when you go ski for 6 hours a day. I promise you your sleep architecture is going to
Different that is tonight. Oh totally and if I was cramming for studying Chinese would be something else no fighting
right? And so we need to go a better way about thinking of overall Sleep Quality. This is where things like. Okay. What's your HIV look like what is your respiratory rate? How do you feel? Did you have a hard time sleeping at 92? Wake up a bunch. How do you feel right now when you wake up, those are free ways to assess your sleep. There's actually strong data on two things here one. I promise I'm coming back to the point. I warned you before we started.
Oh
No, you did. This is why I'm alert. I am sympathetically activated to keep track. Yeah,
excellent data, if somebody sleeps for eight hours a night versus five hours a night and you tell them the opposite you will see a physiological response. So it's correspond to what you told them rather than what actually happened. So in other words if I told you man, we did this whole sleep study on you last night Tim, you slept for two hours and like really you are reaction time your memory your focus your attention the next day will reflect poor sleep. If you sub for two hours in the the actual study.
Five hours and I told you eight I said, hey man, you ordering super wrong actually are technology is better and you sleep phenomenal. That's not true. But like I made it up right you would actually respond that way. Hmm. There's the thing that's growing in the field called orthosis Omnia, right which is actually sleep tracker induced insomnia. And so those scores matter to you. Mmm. They matter more than you think. There's also an anticipatory response that can happen such that this is why you don't check your phone first thing in the
I'm so when you know that a certain thing happens in this particular case checking your sleep Score first thing in the morning, you will then back calculate and start adjusting your sleep to wake up in that arouse state which then compromises Your Sleep Quality. Could you know that thing is happening in a certain amount of time
me and you're anticipating waking up looking at your sleep
score getting a positive or negative feedback and now it's disrupting. This is why we're typically waking up all the sudden earlier don't know why things like that. So all that stuff you need be really really careful.
With understanding, how am I using any of these Technologies if I overall M. So Sleep Quality will kind of leave it. Yeah to that for now
sleep thinking how to
yeah caffeine back to our original Point here. Now when you are thinking about sleeping more we're paying attention to those other ones for duration is the one you keep saying sleep banking, but really I've tried to make the argument that quality matters and then timing so if you are in the same timing and have a higher quality, you have de facto increased duration.
Sure, even if your
duration didn't actually increase the number one and two things I'd say there is number one. Let's make sure your timing your activity today in the right time of your physical day. That's going to make you feel like you've slept more your performance will go up. And so without actually increasing in minute of sleep. You performed like you it's like a pseudo sleep making it's like pseudo sleep extension getting a higher quality of sleep and all those things is the same thing. So that's step number one and two independent of a single extra minute of sleep. If you still need that then this is where things like now.
Things can come in now be careful with napping. I personally don't like it at all in these particular cases. I'm okay going with it. As long as it's not reducing sleep pressure. Like is it harming your sleep latency? Are you waking up more having a hard time going to sleep at night and you're losing total duration. A lot of people can get away with a lot of napping and it doesn't have that doesn't work very well for me. Yeah. Okay. So in your particular case, I would say just take what we have get as much sleep as absolutely possible and then build in what?
Arnon sleep equivalents. So what can we do throughout the day to encourage extreme down regulation and really banking that it's not the same as making sleep. But as it having the same potential well, we've taken a couple of steps of logic away, but it's closed, right? So this is pick breathwork pick low intensity exercise pick non sleep deep rest stuff right Peak Yoga Nidra, like all kinds of things we can do that are going to simulate some aspect of sleep and that's what we're going to go after.
And then really doubling tripling quadrupling down on all of your personal known best sleep practices and just really making sure that is our top priority for the day or the things I have to get done check in for my flight pack things like that. And then the rest of the time like I'm really making sleep my so I'm starting my down-regulation practice now at 3:00 p.m. Or something or whatever you do so that by the time 8:00, it's like mmm, you're just very send out.
So for me, I would say these days not just reducing.
Eliminating caffeine. Yeah, and then ensuring I am not exceeding a certain duration of sitting which is fucked for this week some recording podcasts, but that's okay those two things if I attend to those two things everything else is surrounding her. Yeah. So this is those are the two putting aside the low back stuff for now. Let me come back to it, but it's such an aural Tangled mess of different theories and diagnosis, but the caffeine is suppose a little simpler not always easy. But what is what is your position?
Here and
great. I personally don't love caffeine much not as a scientist. Not as a coach as a human. Yeah, I don't like it that much. I'll have some but like a half-caf espresso is like perfect this tiny back loan on their your physiology will tell you that answer and what I mean by that is I have plenty of people do fine on caffeine and their sleep is fantastic and others. It really is detrimental. If you were to look across in the landscape of the research what your globally going to see is caffeine is problematic for sleep. It just doesn't I don't
About like hey don't have caffeine past 2:00 p.m. Or things I'm talking about literally any caffeine ingestion whatsoever. Just seems to take sleep the wrong
direction. Yeah, I think I miss evaluated this for a long time because I can consume stupid amounts of caffeine and fall asleep. But the Sleep architecture is disaster, right? It's like a spider webs that is created by the spider on methamphetamine. You're like, well, that doesn't look right. Yeah. That's my
sleep. Okay. So one of the
You can pay attention to is your physical output. There are not any data that I'm aware of that suggests that sleep duration is linearly tied to energy expenditure such that if you burn more calories, you don't sleep more but there's clearly some Association here. I mean just based on basic physiology when we understand how caffeine works and how sleep works and that there's clearly an association. Let me give you a very simple example. Most people are aware at this point of a molecule called ATP. Mmm, right this is the energy currency of all biology.
It's the only way we can use cellular energy. Now that stands for adenosine triphosphate. So it's an adenosine model with try three phosphates 123 the way that energy is created from ATP is you take one of those phosphates at the end and you break that off and our biology that is exergonic meaning it gives off that energy and we can use that but that leaves is a molecule called inorganic phosphate. So one of those peas is floating around and then now instead of having a triphosphate you have a die phosphate. So there's two of them if you do that one more time, and this becomes challenging with that.
At adenosine diphosphate goes to adenosine mono- fate. You didn't one more time. And now you just have a dentist see those phosphates are now recycled and going back that adenosine molecule is what drives most of sleep pressure and the way caffeine works is that will competitively bind to the same receptors. So they're binding up to that receptor which means dentist secant, which means you don't feel the pressure Force lie, right great. This is why it causes so many sleep issues there for
It makes some intuitive sense to say if I burn a bunch more ATP this should then if I have a bunch of caffeine in the system, allow me to generate more overall pressure because I'm creating more total adenosine the system better ability to bind now that's not a rate limiting step to it. That's why there's not a linear relationship there, but you're going to have some stuff there what I say that the mean is are people that engage in the most physical activity, even when they consume decent amounts of caffeine.
Ten to on average still be okay with our sleep architecture. Mmm. And so one of the ways to do that of course genetics and how fast and you've probably talked about this but how fast you metabolize caffeine and I don't stuff like that that all matters but the reality of it is if you are in that situation having a high energy expenditure and the other one will say is having a high cognitive expenditure. So making sure both those demands are really high are going to get you in a position where if you have to be on the sauce
and you say
that you're giving yourself the best chance.
Chance to sleep the highest amount. So when I when you asked me that second question of how do we think about caffeine? We typically deal with high-performing folks. So what are the star athletes are non athletes. They're all in this game prior performance, which means caffeine comes along with the ride. Almost all the time caffeine is an incredibly powerful orogenic eight tons of research on it affecting and enhancing human performance in a lot of ways, right? And so we use it a lot for athletes. You're going to perform better. That's great. But you have to play the game of sleep. So when you cross over,
Our of yeah, you have better numbers in the gym or on the court or on the course or where we're at. But now we've lost sleep. There's no right answer here. At what point do we say? Okay, I'd rather you be little bit fatigued and not trained as hard but then sleep tonight and I can't answer that. One of these examples is with our PGA golfers. And so here's a good example. You're going to be on a course for four to six hours in the PGA Tour energy is a big deal. So we got to keep these folks, especially when it's hot and we're playing in Augusta and we're playing like all these really
Difficult places so we got to keep people hydrating performing at the same time golfers don't typically love caffeine because any amount of loss of neuromuscular control is one percent loss. There is catastrophic you gotta be so in golf what happens is so golf is played in well in the PGA tour for days. So you play Thursday and Friday the top half the group gets to play the weekend in the bottom half goes home. So your cut if you will but to make things even because circadian rhythms matter so much you play one of
Those first two days in the morning and you play the other day in the afternoon, so half the golfers and then you need to switch. Right? And so sometimes it's an advantage to play Early depend on the weather sometimes so they just try to make it even say all right Thursday of 6 a.m. Tee time then Fridays noon or 1 or whatever the case Escape. Well that is really hard because if you are a West Coast player say in Phoenix and you're going to go play a tournament in Georgia like Augusta and you get a 7 a.m. Tee time. This is a for A&T time. Yeah, which means you're up at 1:30 and practice warm up all those things.
So you may want to go to caffeine to say I need a little bit of a turn-on here to get going because my neuromuscular skill is significantly compromised, right? This is gonna be really hard to get going the downside of that though is now what have we done to sleep because if we're in the wrong situation if we have early tee time Thursday late tea time, Friday, we're fine, but if you're doing well, you have the opposite then you have a late start Thursday.
And you have a super early start Friday. So you haven't liked short number of hours between when you finish and then play the next day the caffeine on the first day is in if that compromises sleep at all. Then you're really doubling down on how hard that next guy is going to be and so you have to really be careful about how much caffeine you use because at some point and this is just a coaching decision, right? How much do you want to perform better right now versus sacrifice tomorrow and and what are you doing? The same could be said for any sport and this is really hard for our football players. So when we practicing in the NFL
If we're playing a night game, do we use a bunch of caffeine before that Sunday Night Football game or that Monday Night Football game baseball players is the worst because they're playing typically get 77057 10 p.m. If they're pitching whatever they're gonna be done at 10 at the earliest and now you've got to come back off that train and try to get to sleep before 4 a.m. You know, we're changing times 0 so there's no one answer for that. I guess is my point. How do you use it judiciously and carefully,
so in terms of getting off of it, I mean, it seems to be it. Maybe I'm simplifying your but I recall being
Being in Korea not too long ago and I didn't use any caffeine when I was just into Korea which was challenging but friend of mine was explaining sleep deprivation huis young kids. And if you ask them how you contend with that. His answer was effectively like don't be weak. It's like you just content with it, right? There's no magic trick which might be the answer for getting off caffeine. It's like yeah, you're going to have to just like bite the bullet and have a week probably of some degree of withdrawal symptoms, which I might just have to contend with Okay, so let's just say
If I grab a device, whatever device I happen to have I use that prior to getting to altitude. I landed altitude. Yeah, I can try to do some sleep banking up to that point which would include non sleep augmentation in the form of non sleep deep rest Yoga Nidra meditation, whatever might be any other thoughts in terms of what happens after I hit the ground.
So the other thing that would be a very easy when would be making sure I duration is really on point.
People getting cold they tend to forget because when you go to and do something when it's hot, you have the visual tactical feel of your sweat you lose that in the cold. I know you've done a bit of hunting. Yeah. Yeah. So this is where like it comes in for me all the time. This is one of my primary areas of passion and you get out and you spend days and you're working all day running up and down mountains and it's really cold outside. You just forget. Yeah you drink water and then you start seeing feeling signs and symptoms of exhaustion and altitude and all those things and you realize all right. There's nothing I can do about the out.
To but I can correct hydration and that's going to be really important having viscous blood is not going to help anything of your
pet. Your blood is doesn't help
ya gets up. Not good thing to be pumping through your veins. So hydration would be another easy when you also are probably aware of what happens with hydration. Just being a plain assuming you're on a plane to go out there, but they ought to do will get it already said dryness. It's gonna be dry up there. This is part and parcel. So that would be the next big one. I'll go after as maintaining great hydration now,
And then certainly optimizing it or at least maintaining it once you get there another super easy
way any guidelines around that when the hydrate how to hydrate
easy example here half your body weight in ounces per day is a very rough number. So if you weigh 200 pounds 200 ounces a day get you sort of closed while park within that you want to make sure that you're not reducing sleep as some of the biggest wins we've had in from a coaching perspective is actually reducing water intake. Yeah, I'd love for you to
say more about that a friend of mine just a few days ago.
He's like a for the 321 Rule and I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And he said no food three hours before sleep. No water two hours before sleep and then no devices one hour, but we're sleeping as I am that's clever. Okay, I mean it's not a bad turistic to use but how do you think about reducing liquid intake
as a global answer? Yeah, but I like I probably wouldn't use that approach personally much you do want to taper down fluids at night when I'm laughing because we've had a number of people and they come in and they are sure they have a sleep disorder.
Order or something around so we look and we're like Alright, you're peeing three times. Yeah, and it's like, okay. Well, why is that happening? Well, it can actually happen because of low quality sleep. There are a number of things that happen that people that are common and people think are benign that are not the one of them is that so it is somewhat normal than wake up once throughout the night to have to be. Okay great more than that. Something is probably happening either. It's one of a couple of main areas. You're drinking way too much water pure water too late at night or two. You do legitimate.
Sleep quality issues and that can actually contribute to nocturia overnight urination. But just the easy solution there is pay attention a couple things number one how much water you actually drinking at night and two hours three hours before then to pay attention when you wake up the P pay attention to it. Is it a really large volume? Is it really clear or is it a smaller or medium amount and or is it of a more tinted color and then pay attention to how much we actually weigh and measure all this stuff, but you can just use these rough rules.
How much you be the next morning same thing? So if you're getting up and you pee once throughout the night and it's a medium amount and you see the next morning and it's very small. It's very yellow. Then you can say this is probably not over-hydration. This is probably being induced by loss of quality if it's the opposite. It's like yeah, I woke up. I went pee and it was like I was there for a while and then I woke up next morning. I did it again and I have these, you know half a pound or a pound and a half of urine then you have a pretty good idea. It's like you're simply drinking way too much water at night. You can in that case try to add.
Things like salt but the better ideas just not drink so much water
any guidelines on that any suggestions specifically, I mean in the sense that people need to remember something to act upon it. So I'd be curious to know why the three is I've been locked I just heard about this two days ago, right and it's just a heuristic. It's not a yam fast rule, but like the three two one. It's like it's easy to remember mention difference. I was able to remember it. I happen to be quite a lot at night. But guess what when I was off of caffeine didn't pee at night, and so if you're including diuretics and
Then compensating by drinking tons of water or in my case. I'm just a compulsive water Drinker. If I sit at a lunch with something like I'll drink one or two bottles of water. I got drunk a lot of fucking water and I'm not saying you make an amazing face as well to get that on the face. There's so much opportunity with you. Yeah. Yeah. So let's get into the juicy bits. Okay,
so I would love to know I didn't intend I'm not intending to come always come back to sleep here. I don't even think we intend to get here at all really today, but we're here again. You can differentiate between acute and chronic
Duration and blood really quickly. Okay. What do you like a human is the big kicker there and so acute dehydration markers take a look at hemoglobin hematocrit and sodium. Hey, that's going to give you an indicator. If you stack albumin on top of that if those three things start to tend to hi Matt occurred hemoglobin sodium, you got a good indication of dehydration. If they go the opposite direction, we're worried about hyper hydration hyperhidrosis, right? If you tick in albumin on top of that then you're getting an occasion of this is around for a very long time so we can calculate
osmolality we can do it independent of urinalysis things like that. Now why this stuff matters think about it? All those metrics hematocrit is the percentage of your blood that is red blood cells. So it is a percentage. It's not an actual unit sodium and hemoglobin come in such low concentrations. We tend to give them relative to Total blood volume, which means is how many milligrams per deciliter of blood if you are dehydrated your total blood volume goes down so much such that those numbers even if they're the actual same absolute value get
Now albumin is an acute phase reactants which means it responds acutely to inflammation. Okay, so it'll change. So here you go. Here's some fun. This is going to frustrate everybody. Okay, if you've ever had blood work done and someone's been like well your Labs look fine, but you're like, I don't feel fine could be a lot of things happening here, but I'll be human is one of the like easiest examples here is an acute phase reactants, but albumin is responsible for 50 to 60% of the osmotic pressure and Your Vessel, so it's the protein.
In that carries around any number of things tend to 15 or so percent your cortisol is being carried on albumin bunch of other things. So it's the main Protein that's made in your liver and it's got like a 20 or so day turnover rate. So every 20 or so days, you'll recycle that argument that in response to dehydration will change it will change in response to inflammation to so here's what happens imagine a situation a scenario when somebody is slightly inflamed and slightly dehydrated pretty common, right? Yeah. Albumin
Tugged up and top down which means where's albumin going to be on your blood dead in the middle? You will have a normal albumin right
your snapshots going to look just
fine. This is an x-ray knees not broken. You need must be fine. Not at all. So now if I can look at albumen and say hey, wait a minute albumin as well as other markers are trending. Hi now, I got an idea what's happening? If they're not now I can look at albumin ago. Okay. This is an inflammation issue. That's our marker. And so I can really pay attention that and say Tim.
Hyper hydrating your drinking way too much water. Do you know what the signs and symptoms of hydration are well waking up and being three times a night as one headaches brain fog you how many people are program whose brain fog? We've solved in day one because they're just drinking way too much water. Yeah, I believe it headaches gone away. All kinds of issues right almost exact same symptoms are associated with dehydration as hyper hydration. You don't need to do a single lab. If you want to be a dork like us and get all that stuff figured out. But if you are peeing consistently throughout the day like that and if it carries over into night at the rate that you're
Talking about almost surely you were hyper hydrating. This becomes a huge problem because it can induce what's called
hyponatremia. Oh, yeah
dangerous even die. Yeah people died because of heard
stories of radio jockeys having water drinking competitions people died already parties. Yeah dangerous tons of stuff. I have any thoughts to I mean people over hyper
hydrating marathons Iron Man's like things like that happens it can cause hyponatremia in a tree Mia is sodium. This is science word for sodium, right? So type O so that gets too low.
It's not actually an issue of sodium getting too low. It's an issue of excessive water intake and so the local gradient between your muscles and your blood becomes neutral. So the gradient gets lost and so muscle and in this particular case the heart muscle cells to contract. This is muscle fatigue. This is lack of performance. I'm just feeling a strong as powerful as Twitchy as they used to be all the way up to in severe cases.
Death right because cardiac tissue stops, so I would be interested to look at more your metrics and just paying attention to all right, how many times are you really eating at night? And if you are I would stop that immediately and you will typically see very big changes in sleep, but overall function by not excessively
hydrating. Yeah. This is a behavioral modification thing and not a knowledge thing for me don't I would bet like right here on the spot without looking at my labs. I be like I could bet half my net worth that I am hyper hydrating like I know I'm right, right, right. Yeah.
Looking at my behavior over the last couple of weeks and it's really a question. Like how do I modify behavior? In this case? It's like if I sit down at a lunch or a business meeting my inclination is just to keep drinking whatever is sort of in front of me. Yeah, that could be coffee could be water rarely alcohol, but if it's alcohol, if you know, it's sort of like whatever's in front of me, I will drink because I like the motor movement. I have no idea. It's gratifying in some way and then if I layer diuretics on top of the liquid intake then we have a hell of a lot
going on. Yeah. I'll call this the same thing at night right? I'll
call this to be for sure.
The tunnel is happening like vasopressin her and I don't think that's what's going on. Anti-democratic Armand. Yeah. Yeah. This
is the real problem. Right? So you're going to down regulate that and then that's good. Right when you drink alcohol. You should be given the physiologist symptoms to be more. Yeah clear. I know karate right? So here's what I'd say. I would say actually two last things not one like as a behavioral coaching tool then we would have some sort of mechanism for you. There'd be something in your day that triggers water stopping this could be okay when you shower at night, we just don't drink water.
Afterwards right when we
have decide what the trigger is. What is the trick what flips the switch would other
Behavior right? So that point if you need a sip of water you can but we're no longer having water in a visual or immediately achievable position. So no more water bottles no more
tape on Camelback off you man
now he leave it on for fun. Yeah, that would be physiologically. I would come back and say of course Behavior, right? But is there something actually happening that's causing sensation of thirst?
And I want to look at that side of your videos. Yeah, it's a great question. It's a great question. So back
flaps. It's just it's wild hell. This isn't a surprise but it's just a consistent reminder when these conversations get unpacked. It's like camera who it was maybe Emerson. I'll give him credit. Why not when you try to tease out any one thing you find it hitched to the rest of the universe and the sense that if I look at these behaviors, right? I also look at the very high. Let's just call it allostatic load of the last week a bunch of unanticipated events such.
His life have caused a tremendous amount of workload very unexpectedly right before the holidays. We are happening when everybody's on their auto response. Yeah, and you're like, okay interesting home alone, you know, and one of my coping mechanisms is we don't spend a lot of time unpacking this but is hot cold Sonic typically I would do that earlier in the day. I would do that. Let's say 5:00 6:00 p.m. But because of the nature of the
Schedule this past week. I've been doing it late at night. So what does that lead me to do? Leave me to hydrate around that and then boom here we are.
Okay, so funny enough you say that you may or may not have heard but some people actually sleep better when they do a sauna I do if I do it earlier. Okay? Yeah, a lot of people have successful sauna and nitrite many reasons why one of them though is any hyper hydration that is occurred when you bleed it out. You played it out. Mmm. Okay. All right. It's not the
worst thing ever. Yeah to be there. The only other thing I'd come back to is I would be willing to bet probably not half my net worth but some smaller margin may have maybe a hundred
dollars that you're smarter. I'm just terrible Gambler. I love gambling. We're might come back that I love
it. There are two things in this world. I love more than anything and that's trash talking and gambling
often go together. Okay, so you'd bet
$100 that your hydration habit is better.
When you have better down-regulation
practices.
Absolutely, I wouldn't bet against
that. Yeah, and so now it's coming back to the same point which is okay. Great. We can give you a mechanism that says like no more water bottles after 6 p.m. Or whatever. That's great.
But have we really solved the core issue? Mmm. It's the same thing of going back to saying. Okay, great. We took a look at that sodium potassium ratio. We identified that that got really high are they got really low really in that cause signs and symptoms of Teague Etc cortisols playing here. And so these people tend to feel really good when you give them salt but did we solve the problem? No, we didn't because as soon as you know, like you dare, you took your element packs and you did all these great things. I felt way better amazing.
Was your sodium truly low or was being pulled
down right as a ratio. Is it just being
the even the absolute number even absolute nothing pulled down as a response, right? So we've now had alterations in kidney function that changed how much sodium that we're holding onto we haven't solved the issue. This is
also a case for me we're drinking water is basically a socially acceptable now in Emily disruptive compulsive habit. That is a coping response.
For me, it's what I want you H RV, right? So it's like it's like a worry stone me drinking water. And I think this is also case. I'm just thinking out loud here because it's helpful for me where I've spent so much of my life worrying about hydration because I have five hyperhidrosis. I always was good at cutting weight for wrestling. I mean, I would cut like 20 30 pounds. I mean absurd amounts that I would never recommend terrible for you. However, I could do it because I sweat so easily. Yeah that also meant
When I sweat a lot my endurance my power output would just go into the garbage. So for my entire life, my preoccupation has been hydrating. Yeah, and this is a case where it's like, okay, maybe that has served you at points. But in this case, why don't we try the opposite for 48 hours and just and do the Sonic but don't guzzle a gallon water afterwards going to bed a little bit sort of like when I did tennis training a long time ago, and I was with thing the ball like into the net over.
And over again in this process look for the next like 10 minutes of practice. You're allowed to hit the ball anywhere except into the net. He's like if you if you want to hit a home run. Yeah knock yourself out. He's like the one place you cannot hit it is into the net. Yeah. Maybe this is a case where it's like, all right. I'm the only thing you can do anything except for drink a ton of water and I liked it and if you go to bed a little dehydrated for two days like your quote-unquote dehydrated totally may not be dehydrate.
You will feel signs and symptoms of dehydration off UFO cottonmouth. I'm sure yeah.
Feel different things. Have you ever had your sweat tested? No, that's a super easy start. Like why don't we test how much you're actually sweating and then what's the content of that sweat? Mmm, and that's going to tell us the opposite side that this is something that can be done for a few dollars at this point. So there are a number of different methods that people can purchase these things. I think as low as probably like 15 bucks all the way up to a couple of hundred
dollars. What would people if people just want to learn about this? What would they Google?
Yeah, there's there's a number of companies a Gatorade makes a sweat patches.
Each it's $12. I think something like that. You can go all the way up to something like a NYX and I X and this is now I think you buy that patch for $150 or something like that and you can get different things. But you can actually in that get real time feedback. I'm not associate with that.
What interests us is like a CGM. It's like actually close martyr for your sweat
100% Huh. Now there's some issues you don't get full electric breakdown, but you'll know how much total fluid you're losing as well as sodium content and we will actually
Use that because one of the real tricks to maintaining optimal hydration status whether you're talking about throughout the day or during exercise performance is you have to make sure you're putting back in with your sweating which is to say it is not just about water we've talked about I'm going to train me. We need to know that we're putting in a hypotonic solution. So this way of saying like the total pressure with all the different solutes and solvents in the cocktail needs to be the same as your blood glucose sodium chloride potassium.
I assume all this stuff needs to be balanced doesn't have to be but you're gonna get better results. If you drink excessively dilute fluids. Let's just say pure water. Then what's going to happen is a no-go immediately in your gut that will get immediately into blood. It's very quick to get that cross that barrier and then your total blood volume will expand your running constant checks of total blood volume. You'll actually expand more than you think and so you'll actually send signals says excrete the fluid. And so this is why if you're really really dehydrated say after the sonim so you did a crazy
Shh when you do sauna how much time do you do like 20 minutes 30 minutes
doing super long I tend to and this is where it gets a little tricky because cycle right? What's the humidity in the sauna? Right? So generally what I'll do I'll get to let's just call 195 in the sauna, maybe between 195 and to 10 and 20 time. Yeah plenty on 9:35 get in there and I will immediately start dumping water on to the
stones. So I'm also jacket. I see ya have
some also jacking up the immunity I would
They generally the way that I'll run it because I do this almost every day. It's who knows 4 to 7 times a week. I'll do let's just call it 20 to 30 minutes and that will be threshold for most people right the big I need to cool off then I'll do cold plunge. Oh, yeah for three to five minutes and then I'll go back in for a shorter session and diamond is warm back up. Yeah, like ten minutes and then also cold plunge on the opposite side at which point I won't need as much so probably do three minutes of cold. That's a typical night.
Okay. So in that first session overall as well, how much weight are you losing? Do? You know
I'll say it is if I were to guess this is straight guess I mean, I think it's a few pounds. I mean I would say over the to heat sessions two pounds or at least a few pounds. I don't know how much I am reabsorbing in the cold plunge for anyone who has never experienced extreme like weight cutting sir. We couldn't shower after cutting for wrestling acute absorb multiple pounds of water back just by showering but
I don't know if that's true in this much more mild form. Probably not but I mean I'm dumping Sweat There is a huge pool of sweat under
Mao long. Does it take you from initiation the second you walk in your sauna to you start sweating. I
would say if I'm throwing water on the Rocks two minutes till you through two or three minutes
two minutes is the number we always pay attention that if it's taken longer than that, we start to have concerns of dehydration. And so when we handle this with our UFC fighters and stuff like two minutes is a good pay attention to my guess is
You are sweating out far more than that amount. It would be not uncommon for someone your plus or minus 100 and 60 70
pounds in 1770 something. Yeah low 70s,
I would imagine in 30 minutes on a session 3 minute 3 pounds would be reasonable if you're hyper sweater, maybe more.
Yeah, I think it's basically the equivalent of a like a SodaStream full of water. Yeah would be my guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now this
number differs significantly from people to people I can just give
a view to direct examples Tatiana Suarez UFC fighter and forth for many years T is a very good sweater. She competes at 115 pounds. Hmm. It is not particularly hard for her to sweat out for 25 pounds at that low of a body weight not really hard. Now. There's a lot of work that goes into preparation before that, but that's not particularly hard Brian Ortega. Another UFC fighter who can be said 145 pounds and is male we didn't have to work to get four or five pounds. Alright, so there is a spectrum
to give you a crazy reference point my
Senior year in high school when I was competing. Seriously I cut from this is never do this people never ever do this, but I got to a lean body weight. I was very lean then it's kind of sad to think how much more muscle mass I had then believe it or not. I'd like for whatever age was 16 17 Buzz 178 super lien and I cut 2152 twice a week. That was overly a I was doing that over 24 hours yesterday. That's why water is water. Yeah
and a few other things. But yeah for the most that's a lot of
Yeah, a
few other things but a lot of water I sweat to use your language. I'm a very good I'm top-tier sweater tough
elite elite sweater. Italy sweater. So okay. That's great. We would come back. And the reason I'm asking that is we would have a good it's so easy way to figure out your squat, right? So just way naked go in the sauna come back out completely dry off. I would recommend. In fact if we're going to do this test don't put any water on it. Keep it dry. Yeah, so we don't have any thing on there and then just measure do for 30 minutes measure yourself. How much did you tonight right now that's going to tell us about your sweat rate and
Since we don't have a sensor so we don't have actually what's coming out of your sweat which would be nice because we're paying attention to again sweat content and sweat amount but that's going to be a good Insight. Now that changes on your day as well. So if you were to do a day where we podcast for five hours and you drink one glass of water and then you go to the sauna you're going to have a lower slit right than if you were to drink in three gallons, this is water load, right? This isn't and weight management Sports. We did that way. So we want to pay attention to all those things. You said you've been a sweater like that your entire.
Life, okay, great natural people are different we sweat differently, but it's something coming back to that there has probably something in your physiology it to which is explaining why that is
happening. I've always had so I was born premature had a ton of issues as a preemie was in the NICU lots of thermoregulation
issues since day Zero. So
tons of thermal regulation issues. Yeah body temperature tends to run low. So my and I can give you my take on this but like I would say I tend to run
Like the 97.1 97.1 ever four degrees in terms of normal body temperature. My subjective experience is much. Like when people have say a really high fever they feel cold. I feel hot a lot of the time like the Ambient Air Temperature seems warmer to me than it does to I think most folks but Thermo regulatory issues from the gecko. So I've been hospitalized for heat stroke a couple of times whether that was a proper.
Gnosis or not, but basically like in hot conditions or other people are challenged very challenged like training in Judo in Tokyo in the summer with a Geon like indoors with more ventilation collapsed taken to the hospital. I've had that kind of stuff happen a few
times. I see that may or may not have anything to do with heat regulation. There could be a sensation so you don't get the signals. Yeah could be for sure and or because of hyper sweating.
Yeah. I mean that was yeah. There's a lot of sweat on
it. Yeah. So the point is you kind of come back that whole story of
Like what is actually happening internally? Why are you doing it? So your cocktail for hydration would probably be abnormal. But what if someone we could needs to be dialed in so we can say okay great because if you drink too much water, that's still looted for you. Mmm are not for me not for anybody else for your physiology is to diluted then you have that excessive urination. But here's the kicker you're urinating because that blood volume got that short term. So this is what happens when you drink water really quickly you get a short-term expansion of total blood volume, which causes you to then urinate.
It back and you're not actually cellular hydrated yet. So that stuff hasn't had time to cross into tissue where you're actually properly dehydrated right because you got three main areas you have intracellular in the vessels of self and then you have interstitial Sosa space between you drinking it in your stomach. It's going into your vessels that's trying to get it across into tissue if that goes to quickly through there and doesn't have time to get into so here's the kicker you're chugging water. You're peeing clear constantly and you're still so early the
hydrati hydration. Yep, what I've experienced really found to be the case is that
If I do really hard sauna sessions, I can be wiped out the next day and I can feel really fatigued to avoid that. I can't hydrate in the sauna. I can't hydrate right after the sun. I can't even hydrate within like 20 minutes of going into the sun. It has to be like an hour to an hour and a half before the sauna with electrolytes in which case I'm able to I have greater resilience and feel less fatigue the next day. Yeah, at least that's been Ivan split tested everything but that's been my experience.
Yeah, so then the final piece
It'd be what is exactly not electrolyte cocktail and getting that dialed in so that we are putting back in the same thing that you're losing. So we're not excessively bringing
in which is I guess comes back to the sweat test, right? Yeah knowing what the hell you are excreting.
Yeah, you have to have that that's going to tell you electrolytes. You have to have that in combination again, ideally with what your standard metrics are throughout your system and then making sure that in addition do we need to add glucose to the situation right? That's going to transport things into cells really effectively sodium comes along for the ride water comes along for the ride.
That's it. Does it not need to be in there?
You're the perfect person asked and I haven't had a chance to ask someone is it glucose? Is it the insulin emic response to glucose do other things work better than glucose artificial sweetener versus dextrose versus fructose versus fill in the blank in terms of hydration. Yeah. Glucose glucose just straight. Look
that's your answer. Yeah now doesn't mean it's your only thing that could be in there. It depends on what if we're only concerned about just
Ian or if we have other things we're trying to do at once so typically less common to only be carrying about water. So in the case of you may need to be trying to increase restore muscle glycogen. I'm trying to recover faster. Is there any tissue consideration there that is a slightly different answer are we trying to maintain a cute performance? So we take in this in the middle of a session and we're trying to keep going and perform better. Are we doing it to try to recover faster than next day or we only concerned about just pure hydration at a steady?
Resting stay in this case. It would be if I had to wait it. It's like 70% hydration 30% help with recovery. I like Tucson after weight training.
Yeah. Okay. So now particular case if you're trying to maximize recovery, then a glucose is going to be super super effective fructose comes in the equation when we're trying to maximize carbohydrate intake in a cute performance, especially because glucose and fructose get through the gut barrier and they have different Transporters. So when the glucose gets full we can use fructose and get it through separately. So our ability to bring
NG in without GI distress as much higher if we have a combo between glucose and
fructose to just have a few Diversified Transporters
Bingo. You have two freeways one of those fall
two different types of fairies or yeah, I think
right now in terms of getting into the actual cell itself, there's two basic ways that you can get glue for Transporters. These are the Transporters on muscle cells that allow glucose to go inside the cell there's insulin dependent and some independent and so muscle contraction itself is inside independent and then you add directly have insulin dependent which is in this case bringing.
House insulin will then drive it and there but if you're doing exercise you're going to get that other contraction as well. And so you have both mechanisms to bring it in play. So in that particular case glucose at a roughly five percent concentration or so somewhere between five to nine is typically The Sweet Spot doesn't have to be part of your equation, but it is going to help the process. So post weight cut if you were to drink electrolytes only you would be limiting how quickly you can rehydrate that's an extreme situations if you're the average person hanging out.
Just like did a sauna session. You don't need to put a whole bunch of glucose into your drink. You're probably
fine. All right, so I'm going to weigh myself before and after shots night. Yeah those no water on the rocks and just to get an idea of what that actual number is because I'm super curious. I'll also be doing a song tonight with a guy who used to be a vjj competitor. So I think he'll be equally interested just to see what the hell happens with
him. Yeah. Do you track how much water you drink throughout the day total? Do you know what that number
is? I haven't I have done it at points far in the past. I haven't done it recently which should be pretty easy because I could really
What is the easiest way to keep track of that? Probably what you're about
to say just fill one container. Yeah, well planned out Bingo just fill up a gallon how far to get down. Yeah, or if it's multiple then you get over
there. So I'll do that tonight 10 days from now. Let's just say I make an attempt to try will to bank some sleep or sleep adjacent activities meditation Etc. Sleep timing TBD. I'm going to work on that although frankly the 15 car pileup make that somewhat challenging but I'll work on it. We do the best we can with what we have.
Have I land at altitude? I will then be confronted with training decisions and my concerns are mostly around avoiding injury.
Tim and Andy got into the weeds of Tim's Fitness training and it got very detailed. So we moved it to the end. It is super super interesting from a training perspective. So stick around to the end of the interview and you can hear the rest of that section.
And then from a nutrition
perspective. Yeah. This is why full analysis is better because now we can tell you exactly not only macro-nutrients right calories protein carbohydrate. That's great. What we tend to say is like people care globally about three things regarding their body. They want to look a certain way and when I feel a certain way, I want to perform a certain
way. Yeah in this particular season, I care most about to and course. I mean going to be in four layers. Anyway, I don't
give a shit you already laid the foundation this is he part doesn't matter your fixed fine as it is.
This is not like a detriment in your performance right now. So you care about feeling and performing certain way awesome. That's going to give us some heads towards macronutrients micronutrients though are the true game behind how you feel and perform. That's the key here macronutrients are fine energy intake this regulates how you look micronutrients are how you feel and perform and so we want to be very clear on exactly what you're eating if we can let's say we don't have any access to that. And so we just have to give you rough suggestions based on nothing. I want to know what you're consuming.
And prior to I want to know what you're consuming during while you're on the slopes and what you're consuming afterwards. So give me a rough idea there and then I'll come back with a far shorter answer then we took was to get to the training.
Yeah, I mean if I'm giving you my lazy day of skiing and I know this is gonna make people well shutter,
but I'll one of the reasons why I think you've had such a tremendous career is you're so honest about these things. We do know you don't protect your ego of like just saw what's best but this is what you're doing is eating cake in the morning. I get
it. So first, I just do a couple of lines of cake.
X yeah, then the pixie sticks come out. No, I would say often wake up. And this last season I had a tough time with my low back. So I was having a really most nights very compromised sleep like I was tossing and turning waking up a lot like turning from side to side pillow between the knees because my lonely I will Jack wake up huge cup of coffee and then these are usually pretty early mornings, right so and I'm getting up with about 30 minutes to be out there.
The door so I'm like, okay, so I'm waking up having a huge cup of coffee and then I'm having oatmeal mixing in some almond butter. Hmm and I kind of swirling that around Downing that maybe if they're available wanted to eggs, then I'm out the door and for on the slopes generally we can make pit stops for water. So I'm generally not carrying water unless I'm doing Backcountry in this and then I have a backpack so I care about it. Yeah, but I might have some you can bars some kind of honking and a handful of those which I have found.
Helpful, it's kind of like nibble on and then typically I'm doing a half day. But if we're going to do a three quarter dare full day, then we'll stop for lunch and I'll probably have some type of stew meat beans Etc and maybe some maybe some additional coffee. If I've really been pushing too hard. I might have some hot chocolate and then right back out and then at night I would say it's more of a real meal per se then I'm sitting down and I can kind of choose whatever I want you to have.
At that point you have that
combination of fats and starches and yeah the
whole yeah, but I have certainly have flexibility what I have found in this is not going to be a shocker for anyone who's done a lot of intense skiing if I try to follow like keto super low carb, I feel like shit. Like, I generally feel Center terrible, right? Yeah normal life not having that kind of output fine, but for that type of activity, no, it doesn't really work
for girls. There's a difference between not being sick. Yeah. I'm not dying and performing at your best.
Very different so that's I'd say not every day, but that would be a busy day shitty night sleep woke up fucked want to get out on the slopes.
Okay one last really quick last year / industry to have a plan for
supplementation. Let's see. So last year, I would say no I would add in what I have done over the last say nine months which has and this is going to sound like a Shameless plug some involved with these guys, but probably what I would do this ski season as I would have
have a never-ending supply of Maui Nui venison sticks like the unsweetened. Yeah, like no additional sugar and that has proven for me to be just about the easiest way to get nutrient-dense 30 grams of protein in the morning. So and the I can just throw those my ski jacket too. So that will probably take the place of eggs. Also just for convenience in terms of supplementation. I would say last year kept it pretty simple. I would say I was taking magnesium some electrolytes generally magnesium in the
And then went back and forth on Creatine. I know that there are so many different benefits to County and I was cognizant of not wanting to carry too much weight like additional water weight if I was going to retain a lot more water. So use that intermittently, I would often use that around cross-training so it was like kind of going to the gym. Yeah athletic greens again sound like a plug but I've been using that stuff since 2000 whatever 9 10, so hey and not a whole lot beyond that I'd say
Where last season I was taking the most was related to sleep because I was so desperate to get a good night's sleep. I was taking just like entire laundry list of stuff but obviously including some prescription stuff, which I've tried to really titrate off of yeah, but at the time helpful, you know, trazodone things like that, which you should not take without dr. Supervision. So I would say not a really comprehensive supplemental saying this point, I would also do not want to leave behind the nutrition piece because right now if not if you were to ask me like
What is your macro breakdown look like but I have no fucking idea notice if I'm going
truthful about it. Look the reality of it is supplements are called supplements for a reason. Yeah, and we absolutely approach them the same vein right we're going to spend as much time as we can on whole
food after coming back from training almost always taking supplemental protein of some type. Yeah. All right. Just
okay. I just want a little bit of a context of foundation of what else working with
here. And actually I'll modify one thing I said, which was last season I would often and again, I'm not this is like what I did.
Did I'm not saying it's the best but I would often have like athletic Greens Plus some type of like whey protein isolate or something before like immediately before heading out. Yes. I've had their oatmeal plus the almond butter and then I would throw that in yeah and that happened quite a bit. I would say
when you think about recovery three classic cars coming to place repair replenish and rehydrate. That's what we're going after. Right so repair is protein replenish his carbohydrate and obviously rehydrate is is a combination of fluids will start electrolytes and glucose so
As you're running that I'm running to that entire thing. Okay now can we alter what we're doing to maximize performance on the slopes? Yeah, but that's not really what you're asking. You don't want to feel terrible on the slopes, but you're also really hedging because we know your recovery capacity is already compromised. So I'm going to push towards that once that means do we have enough total calories. Maybe do we have enough protein unlikely unlikely? Yes fact, we're starting off the day with no protein sources. Not a
good or very little.
Yeah now he's fantastic. Like I eat almost every day.
At this point my entire like I almost exclusively Wild game. That's yeah, that's what I do. But yeah since being a part of my new as well, like that's what I'm after. I've yet to have anybody that we've sent it to come back and be like what the hell is this stuff? This is like this is incredible. Yeah. It's such a high positive response. Yeah. Alright conflicts of interest noted you guys you got the
know.
So that is great. I'm you can start there. That's awesome. I don't really particularly care where the sources I wouldn't make sure that we're getting some Source immediately in the morning approaching that
My first stop now the other thing is I would probably take your caloric intake higher in the morning than it currently is because we know it's unpredictable throughout the rest of the day. Yeah, and we know that's a you don't have to have a lot of calories in the morning. So now people often say things like you can only absorb 25 or 30 grams of protein at once and that's obviously by the way. I opened up that question. That's clearly not the case. Yeah. However, there is serious scientific evidence to suggest you can only maximize
muscle protein synthesis up to 25 or 30 grams that's been around. So the question is for you despite the fact that all the evidence and science will say that are you ever concerned that if you ate a little bit more protein that you would somehow not use it?
No, I spend zero time worrying about that. Great. Okay, so I know this is going to help question, right? So
this never made sense to
me if my urine ends up a little more expensive. I don't care.
That's right. Look when you go to apply things into science and life will we will try to do all this science of sleep in nutrition and supplementation. You have to take some leaps of faith that that is actually the scientific process, right? This is why like I think it's best to think about science is a verb not a noun is an action. It is not a thing, right? What is the science of recovery? That's not how it works just like this is an action. So I'm taking a real-life action on you, which means I'm going to take steps past science such that it never made sense to me but muscle protein synthesis is maximized at 25 or 30.
G I work with NFL players right so beat of a a defensive tackle 300 and many plus pounds on top 300, right? We really think his muscle protein synthesis is locked up and just maximize at 30
grams the same as you are I correct or just about less than
half his size here like actually weigh less than half. So there's actually a paper that just came out really interesting suggest even up to 100 grams of protein. It continues to
increase, you know, I might be making this up but I don't think I am that I don't want to say that the older you get there's some
To suggest that it is better to have lar like a larger bolused meaning more grams of protein at a single.
Yeah. This is what you're talking about is called antibiotic resistance. So you become more resistant to antibiotic stimuli training or protein as you age, but this is totally preventable extremely preventable by just having bigger boluses. So my point with all that is you can't stop that train. Yes. Some of that protein will be oxidized who cares doesn't matter. You can't have too much protein in your particular case why I'm going
Back to that in your case in your scenario is because we now we've continually had conversations about you just recover slower. You worse or longer, etc. Etc. We need to make sure we are never limited in our recovery by protein that needs to be higher. And so we need you at a minimum of I don't know 200 grams of protein a day.
Oh, well, okay, I'm gonna need to change
some things. I'll survive it 150 I'll take 150 but like I want you to go over.
So let's take let's say copy paste. Now, you're in my place doing the exact same training. Yeah, what might your breakfast look like?
I'm fine with everything you have there. Yeah, but now I just want 50 grams protein what form I know you say you're agnostic, but for you fine eggs, no problem eating eggs to
gets to anagrams. I mean if we're like yanking out the yolk. Yeah you guys actor. Well, I'm just thinking about the what this actually Nets out to. I mean how many eggs would that mean? That's big. Well five six.
Yeah, you're not gonna get many like, I'll put this way. I wouldn't go exclusively from eggs. That would that would be the point if you want to have a protein shake as well you already
He said you basically did that
right? That's why did you have this last season?
So if you have let's say three eggs, maybe half a cup of egg whites. Hmm something like that, maybe two eggs half a cup of egg whites. We're not 40 or so and 20 minutes later or something, but I don't know what you have in that shake on the way
home right before I stepped out. Okay, great. Let's
just stop right there Then 40 grams, right? I said 50. We're splitting hairs, right? Yeah, you're close enough there. If you want it another that's a day. We woke up late. Great. Just do the double Shake Ya right to sue Scoops, right? So you're not 40 to 50 depending on what?
Consumers are using or whoever you're getting it from pretty high quality pretty fast absorbing. Yeah, you're great. Now when we're at lunch, that's fine. We're just going to make sure that if we've had a couple of now a new sticks throughout the day. Those are what 10 grams
each 10 grams each.
Yeah, so you got plenty right there. Mmm. It's easy to put down like four or five of those more candidly. Yeah. Let's just say you're at 110 more grams. All right, we're up to 50 60, maybe another one at lunch any reasonable serving of meat in your stews going to get you another 30 to 40.
Tea depending on how much you're eating there. You don't want to eat to your fill
terrible. Hmm But
that's fine. We're already well over 100. Okay. Awesome. If you can get another shaken a protein shake double shake when you're on the slopes. That's great. Some of their snacks like you 30 40, which brings you back to dinner with another 30 or 40. I wouldn't track them. I wouldn't weigh them. I wouldn't do any of those things some days. You're at 150 finds. What is your
175 do what? I don't which I don't really do which is like when in doubt just eat a little bit more, it's fine.
Yeah eat a little bit more right from there. I would be primarily concerned.
With making sure your carbohydrate intake is sufficient. You probably going to get enough fat along the way so you
have I'll get enough fat along the way I think that I've trained myself historically to reduce carbohydrate intake for a lot of different reasons jar. So I consume two little carbohydrate when I get into training mode for something like
skiing look like and I send them to like Gnostic. It's the same thing with food carbohydrates and fats have different properties and that gives us a lot of opportunity one is
Better than the other and any situation so it is in this context clearly additional carbohydrate is highly beneficial. You can go more fat. That's great to just to get more calories. It's also easier more condensed you can get any faster you're getting in a decent amount for breakfast. So you're good there. I would make sure we have some sort of starch as well for lunch. Yep red with that. Yeah soup.
Yeah, what does need to be fascinating? Yeah
who ever complained about dipping bread and some soup. Yeah, that's amazing or what?
Any number of that me well, well our high-quality carbohydrate sources fruit would be fantastic at that feeding as well. So now we get all the other additional benefits that come along with fruit this context and then backing up at night one of the other things that's really clear while you don't want to have a large meal right before bed carbohydrates at night are highly beneficial for Sleep Quality. Yeah for sure. There's tons of Link's there. In fact, we actually had this happen fairly recently. So
Labs came back individual sex hormone-binding globulin is High free testosterone is low all the signs and symptoms of wanting to go on testosterone. That's not a conversation. I have let's go to your doctor, right? You want to go on hormones. Awesome sleep is
terrible. You must get asked about a
lot. Oh my gosh, like you saw sensitive. I am I going public. I'm like, I'm not like that. I don't do medications and Insulin was low. Hmm super low. There's a known inverse association between insulin and sex hormone-binding globulin. So when insulin is too low sex hormone-binding
Goes up because that what happens free testosterone goes down so you can do that. If you want. However in this individual we took a look at total carbohydrate and taken it was something like 125 grams a day, which I actually feel great personally. I would imagine you probably feel fine at that level to even with like training I trained most days. I feel flying at 125 150 no issues almost no carbohydrates night, very low as twenty one of the less G crab. I don't know all we had to do was put another 40 or so Graham.
A carbohydrate at night everything corrected itself asleep took off so super super simple solution like that.
So sex hormone-binding globulin came down. Yeah because the insulin is going up
totally and testosterone then took off and then what happened asleep
and what happened recoverability. Yes sleep doesn't hurt just a stone either. Oh my God,
right but this is the classic cases.
So sorry grams. So what we're talking about there is like that's not that much. No, it's like what 200 bump flubbing the math here, but it's 4.5 for real.
Is program for ash right? So it's not that much
no like you're talking about. Well, this is a banana 25 grams. Yeah Bingo right 100 calories. Yeah an apple like these things are piece of fruit is typically 15 to 20 25 grams a small side of sweet potatoes a cup of rice. Like you've already hit 25 to 40 sort of G pretty easily. So we're not talking like we had this guy pick out on pasta which would find but like it's very small changes here.
Workers right just like they really have to do so point is I'm making sure that we have an appropriate amount of carbohydrate in your last feeding would be appropriate we've got ourselves a nice infusion throughout the day. This will help with your rehydration since we're probably having fairly limited water intake because you're on the slopes,
right? Yeah, and it's dry and it's so easy for people to forget you mentioned this earlier, but it's a high-altitude. Yeah old it's like you go to Antarctica. It's a desert right? It's easy for people to forget
trust me. I wonder where dry environments I didn't mule deer hunt and the Tetons this year.
10,000 HP I think of base camp was like 7,500 and we were to ride horses a couple hours in the morning to get up to our hunting spot. Holy cow cold. So dry and 10,000 which for me we lose either. I live in Southern California. So I'm at you know zero like
literally ten thousand snow
joke know it and those Mountain Boys. Holy cow are mountain tough. And a great time. So point is you get super dehydrated super fast. Yeah, and don't really I so those
hydrates and all that are going to help maintain replenishing muscle glycogen that you've burned through your entire body. We don't care if we're having an excess of calories because if we lose a little bit of body composition, I don't care at all won't yeah because you're burning so many
calories. It's astonishing how much some I'm going to be there with the close friend and we can consume absolutely mind-boggling amounts of food. Oh and it does happen us. Oh, yeah, and it just does not matter. You're going to work it
off. Yeah. Yeah, and I like you mentioned some
Arches earlier if you can take them out there, that's great to that's probably going to feel better than just a Maui stick when you're both so sure then for
sure. Yeah. I mean I need to restock but yet the you can bars that I used last season were super helpful.
Yeah, I would just make sure on top of all that kind of rounding up these points making sure that you are adequately salt in your food because we know that that's going to go down. We know you're a heavy sweater. I don't know what your sweat rate is for your salt intake with if you're sweating out three or four pounds a day. That's just going to you're going to lose a g + many grams of salt to making sure that comes back in in the form of
Supplementation if you'd like to use electrolyte packs or something like that, or if you just want to strictly go salt in your food, you know, heavily to taste their you probably need some supplemental electrolytes would be my guest at this point. I'm making sure it's there that's nutritionally going to put you in a really really good spot just be really careful making sure we're still getting colors and your food because micronutrients typically don't have a huge response. Like you're not gonna feel the difference in vitamin A or C in like a day. Yeah, but it will over the course of two months start to kind of add up. Yeah, so making sure we're not
Is eating all brown and I'm having a lot of
greens. Yeah. I've generally used color as a proxy. So I try hard it is one of the challenges in a lot of these mountain towns course it is is like they're importing everything frustration vegetables. Oh man, but yes good you suppose
if you have to write so Frozen fruits and vegetables. It's not the same but it's still really really high quality and then supplementation. We could say I can be brief here if you'd like, but absolutely making sure magnesium is there magnesium is released in sweat at very low quantities, but it's still
enough When you sweat the amount that you're potentially going to be sweating also with
with skin like I'm going to sweat my ass off. Yeah, I'll be
working. Yep. So you want to make sure that that stuff is high creatine is great. If you're going to use it, I wouldn't use it the way you did. Okay, I'll use it or don't okay. So having it like on certain days or not is
just making a big a deli or
not. Yeah, because it takes a chronic effect for to really start to matter. Unless you're going really high dosage. So I wouldn't be super concerned about the water retention aspect of it because you haven't be a plus he has to say we're having a
Some of that anyways, right so I would go there that said any recommendation if you try and doesn't work, you know, like a just
don't get what are we talking about like 5 grams a day or would it
be that's the number that's the standard that's what I want throws out. But I would say the same thing of like like the protein. Yeah. Yeah quite candidly for guys our sighs fine. I'm probably going higher. I'm also never measuring creatine to be totally honest. Like I'm just taking big Scoops and throwing it in there like saying what happens there's actually really interesting data on the more recent stuff the more interesting stuff.
On Creatine is around bone health brain health and overall even like mood my research has been done on that right now. There's no job. Yeah, but that's been 10 to 20 grams a day things like that. So I
have experimented with that chronically and just looking at verbally, I mean I recall yeah and also just like verbal Acuity and stuff in podcasts. I mean, I've looked at this someone instead of one and it's just self-reporting but for me, it's pretty
noticeable. You don't have to do any one. There's data there's tons of it out there. That's nothing's perfect. But there's
Another review article just this week came out also on creating a brain health. So whether you're looking at dementia Alzheimer's marks and stuff like that. There's no perfect answer there, but you can see the data
anything else you'd add to the list. The
rest of it would be dependent upon your labs and your physiology though. What we knew there you could throw in you're never going to be hurt for the most part adding vitamin D. It's a very common one. You're gonna be on the sun all day. So
well half of my face will be out in the sun all day a fair.
There'll be significant
sound blockage. I hope so.
Yeah, yeah, I did supplement with d last
year. Yeah and fish
oil fish oil. I also supplemented with visual could be sasebo who knows is probably literature out there on this, but I found it to seemingly help asleep
quite a bit. Oh, yeah, like those would be the standard kind of without knowing anything about you you throw in that cocktail you talking about things that are fairly cheap again relatively. Yeah, they have very little cross reaction unlike minerals unlike even high doses of vitamins your
The game there that you may want to be a bit careful of but things like vitamin D and things like
omega-3 Innings has unintended side effects. Yeah.
Yeah. You don't know what problem you're solving really? And so you just sort of throwing stuff in there that can technically happen to the thing even vitamin D and heavy metals can be concerned there but it's a very rare thing. So most of the time like you're fine, I feel comfortable saying like most people can jump on that train for all those and be totally fine outside of that. It would be Precision intent. What are we trying to move? What are we trying to do if you wanted to go?
Of next level of hay left science, but some science potentially beneficial then you would get in the realm of herbals. And this is when ashwagandha rhodiola things like that start to kick in what do you
find rhodiola most helpful for so I actually do use ashwagandha in the same way that say Peter Tia might use phosphatidylserine just too blunt. Oh sure but of cortisol release at night for instance. Okay inhale, so it may be it may be I'm off base, but I mean talk to me about ashwagandha and
Viola okay. So we actually just published a review paper on rhodiola think it's open axis. So we have to go read it for free way more data on ashwagandha been around for a long time the issue we've always dealt with with both of those are all of our athletes have to have third-party certified things and even they have to have NSF or informed choice. So those are hard to get to if you're not concerned about that then disregard that but you really do need this is
to avoid doping issues right?
Correct Yeah, we actually have another paper we published on the frequency.
Of adulterated supplements. Oh
God. It's got to be a complete
disaster. Whatever number you're thinking. It's higher. Yeah. Yeah, totally kiss. It's now in America with big Brands like you're fine, but you leave America. Thanks get squirrely. Yeah pretty quickly on supplements plenty of willingness to your to but both those papers are open access so fun. We want to dive him. We'll start off. We're going to need much more data on ashwagandha good effective, but it is very difficult to make sure you're getting concentrations at what is labeled on the bottom.
And that's actually from a labeling issue as well as a harvesting issue. So the people that are kind of behind the scenes that make these things will tell you not every plant has the
same. Yeah, lo and behold totally nature doesn't
standardized know. Yeah, people say things like it's not FDA regulates not true. There's tons of regulations on supplements. It's just they can't standardize it against things like that. It's really hard. Right you're growing herbals. And you're just hoping that that doses as potent as the previous one.
What do you think?
From an effect standpoint for what can a credible argument be made? I know less science, but with ashwagandha like yeah, why would someone take it that is plausibly defensible and what you take in that case. I got other certain brands that are more reliable for dosing for any particular reason.
Yeah with ashwagandha. I think the only third-party pure ashwagandha company that I know is clean the KE ke Lian. I'm pretty sure I'm you'll see it in combinations and
Other stuff but that's I think the only one that sells it as designed for health and design for sport might make money as well canning sec. I'm not 100% sure on that one decent data on exactly what you mentioned taking it as a the colloquial term will say here is any adaptogen adaptogen? Yeah. It was a means is its we're skipping is it's a cortisol modulator what that means is cortisol is not supposed to be low on a good thing. Right? That is lethargy that is that is a classic sign of excessive training as well you
Go back to sodium potassium ratio that will tell you exactly what's happening with cortisol as well. That's Addison's disease strike super low down there. You don't want to be high either. Now, the general thing that is optimal with cortisol is you have giant spikes throughout the day and then giant recovery. This is exercise. This is focused work etcetera and we have this normal curve throughout the day such that we have high cortisol in the morning so are awake and alert and we have low cortisol at night so that we could actually fall asleep and then it's a curve. So adaptogens are supposed to be modulating that curve not such that it's
High or low but such that it's getting back to an appropriate diurnal curve. That's the idea ashwagandha rhodiola and specifically ashwagandha, there's reasonable evidence that it helps with that. And so a lot of folks probably the most typical utilization of ashwagandha is helping it to sleep helping calm down. There's is kind of resetting that entire access because of that whenever you manipulate cortisol, you have a very good chance of manipulating testosterone because that relationship is antagonistic for the most part and so
So the smaller level science and then also large amount of anecdote is it can be helpful and beneficial with testosterone? I would say in my experience. It's reasonable. It is a very reasonable thing to think about with that. I wish that more companies would make pure ashwagandha that is NSF certified. That'd be great. I could use it more directly now rhodiola is another one we have had now. This is not science. This is just my practice coaching experience. I've had a lot of benefit of elevating testosterone with rhodiola, really
Yeah, it is also cortisol modulator. There has a lot of other effects the paper we published a nothing to do with hormones and everything to his performance. And so there is enough data now on muscular endurance and physical performance that it seems to be pretty beneficial. It's not perfect. Not every study showed benefit, but there's enough to wear that I've been using it for probably a decade or more personally as well as in a coaching practice in and I feel like it does really effective work on that. So we actually got home.
Then I was pitching a so hard. We got Jeff from a mint has to make it so they have there. So we use the other Rodeo. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's kind of what got them to make it because I was like you guys are just like so much work here. So we use them because it is certified as third-party tested as well. So that's pretty much where we got a rhodiola from but lot of benefits there are there
for acclimating to altitudes and know. Yeah, you've gone for flatlander T altitude a couple of times anything that you have found particularly helpful for accelerating acclimation to altitude because you hear all sorts of stuff.
Right, some people take like beet root extract. Some people take rhodiola anecdotally course. I'm curious if you have thoughts are
rhodiola would be on my short list. I would listen to you. Either way. If you said it didn't work at all, but he said it did. Yeah like I would listen in the way but it would be a low risk potential small reward. Why not any Arginine or precursor B route you mentioned vasodilation is going to give you every opportunity possible to give spleen a contraction to get more red blood cells.
Into your blood to let you acclimatize to it other stuff. You can pay attention to so one of the major
couple weeks that you po. Yeah, right. That would be my first job. It's a joke guy's a joke. Yeah, it'll it'll work. Yeah.
Now you can consider at this point in the same realm you can consider any Global alkaline.
It and so one of the issues that you can see happen with altitude is predictable increases in respiratory rate predictable increases in carbohydrate metabolism, right predictable increases in respiratory quotient respiratory ratio, things like that. This is part of what happens. I lactate is a big player, right? This is insanely beneficial for you. So you may consider I don't know if this will actually work. I don't even know the literature to be candid here on this one. I'm but I lactic supplement could be potentially beneficial their lactate is incredibly powerful it actually bicarbonate buffering acid.
This may sound counterintuitive. But you heard that right lactate very specifically will reduce metabolic acidosis lactate doesn't do what people think it does. It is certainly not the cause of muscle fatigue and definitely not the cause absolutely definitely not the cause of muscle soreness. That is highly beneficial. It is directly used in the brain as a preferred fuel source the brain and the heart and numerous situations including altitude used actually right now a couple of handful of Trials being used as an acute response to traumatic brain injury.
No sure. Yeah. How's that administered?
You can do it any number of ways I supplement. Yeah, gel. I liked it gels any of those things done George Brooks at Cal Berkeley the lactate king-hammond Bruce clad in an Auburn, but George is done a number of those jobs and TBI is similar to look you may or may not realize but there's an entire lactate shuttling that happens from muscle into other muscle to the kidney Cori cycle of the stuff. There's also an astrocyte lactate shuttle. So astrocytes are like the cells in your central nervous system, they need energy to so we know that the brain
the heart and astrocytes prefer almost exclusively anaerobic metabolism, which means they'll of glucose right? When you enter into areas of problem, whether you're talking about long-term brain health reductions or even short term concussions and injury ischemia is heart attacks things like that. One of the major issues is we lose metabolic fuel. We have problems right Enter key tones. Yeah, exactly enter lactate. This is why these things are so interesting. It's still a lot to learn here. Some of the trials are like all great, but then they don't work for ketones and they do for lactate and stuff.
That but there's clearly something happening. And this is also why to come back to a point creatine is so powerful for brain health. This is same thing is the most direct and fast fuel sources. It's 1 to 1 Stoichiometry. So doesn't give you a ton one molecule of creatine one ATP others ketones hurts far higher, but super fast and effective. So lactate would be one I would
go and does that I haven't ever sought it out presumably you can just find that as an oral supplement you're taking castles of the
stuff you can again the gel would probably be just
well, yeah better place, but we're really looking like a jealous that like any of your tissue just rub it on anywhere. Yeah. Yeah on your legs. Yeah, all that stuff probably where I'd actually start because that's I could go look at the research and I might be like, oh my God, that was really stupid. Don't do that. I don't know like I was sort of me working through thoughts on there but a similar idea that is much more founded would be any sodium bicarbonate solution, right? It's same exact idea where you're going to put yourself a little more alkaline situation. My guess is that would help you feel a little bit better and now
Was it since you asked sort of direct application sodium bicarbonate can come in a lot of forms and fashion. It's baking soda, like literally just be careful though. Yeah, I can tell you many stories in the lab of doing research with baking soda or sodium bicarbonate.
Yeah there there's such thing as too much of a good
thing. Yeah fluid in your
intestines matters. So while so be careful with creatine and double espressos just Pro tip, if you're about to head out skiing too much of those two great
Tina calf.
Jean have this weird
relationship increased likelihood of disaster pants not to get too technical. But yeah, super technical
theoretically will see the data on that so you can do that. The other way is gels Joseph, right? So this is PR lotion. This is what they make so you just rub a blonde sodium bicarbonate if you want to go around it there. So if anyone has any GI issues with it that lotion will go as well far far far more research on oral applications and then lotions but not on the sodium bicarb. Yeah for sure and there's lots of research on that. So yeah those any potential ways
Outside of that we would have to really start getting into things that are actually specific to mitochondria and to kind of go down those rails the issue with all that is I don't know if you're going to have like a 125 day effect and so really getting into and this is everything from Coke you tens and things like that. So the going back up to like Arginine and be reduced that's going to have an instantaneous effect. Sodium bicarbonate will instantaneously change things the other stuff takes a little like a model or a peek a hue or something like that. It's going to take probably gonna take a while. Yeah, you stuff.
So by that time you probably hopefully of acclimatize
well their levels in their levels, right? And so if I'm operating at 10K, but then I'm doing some you
skiing at 16 or will you all
excuse to steal a be hot out? But if I'm going up a few thousand twenty-four for Backcountry stuff or hello skiing?
Yeah, you'll notice that extra thousand feet. Oh, yeah for sure kind of my point. I was getting there at the end of us. I would probably let physiology just do it wants to do that would be my normal thing take your Baseline stuff there and then let it go.
Cause you're going to be there for eight weeks and we're going to lock ourselves into these first two or three weeks. Anyways, if you were there for like, for example, we have Ryan Ortega is fighting in Mexico City for his next fight that 7500 feet in elevation. Brian lives Torrance three layers below elevation. We are doing things specifically now starting like to day to prepare for that. But that's because we have to get there for one one event one night. You have two months. I was there. Yeah, I would let your body do it wants to do kind of the last thing I'll really say here is
I think that's an important note your physiology and your brain are still way smarter than anything. We have any AI program any machine learning stuff. We've got your own physiology has a far better sense of what you're doing. So whenever possible don't hold it back we call these performance anchors. So anything you're doing that's an anchor. It's dragging you down. So this is alcohol. This is any number of suboptimal visible stressors hidden stressors that's going to hold you back. But once you've removed those things just got
The
way yeah your body. I'll figure it out
your body really knows where it wants to go for the most part don't sabotage it but then don't have too much
control. The wheel is super important. I mean, maybe another way to put this I guess would be like, it's human nature to think about how we can accelerate things accelerate accelerate. But in this case, we have millions of years of evolution. And and if you can just remove make sure they don't have any emergency brakes
on. Yes. That's exactly right.
You make a lot of progress and we've talked about
about a lot today people can find you on Twitter Instagram at dr. Andy Galpin and they can find all things any Galpin and you helped and.com. You have a number of different initiatives projects companies that are in motion absolute rest. We've already mentioned any others that you would like to mention a point people
to yeah absolute rest, of course is our sleep company. My education company is called biomolecular athlete and that is actually something that we just released.
Thanksgiving so this is just new to the world. I have always and will continue to put out as much free content on YouTube as I can. So what I do is I have this like series of five 25 and 55 minute physiology videos and if you've been paying attention and when I say 25 minutes, it's ish
when I say 55 minutes, it's yes. Yeah, I give her on that one.
I'm always going to do that and that is always going to be free out there, but we have had such demand.
And I was like man, I just need to make a full proper education company. So we released our very first course Thanksgiving and I think we had people from over 90 countries get into it. Like I was like, all right, I'll do well, but holy cow of look so stunned. So that is out there. We're going to come up with our second and third course this year. One of them will be on performance blood work and then another will be on managing. It's like a an algorithm. If you will step by step process on fatigue how to stop it from happening corrected like what to do like all this.
So that'll be coming at biomolecular athlete.com. I think it's forward strength. But if you get the bottom left out, they get too close enough. The other one we're launching in January is called Vitality blueprint and that is is high level performance blood work. And so this is not medical stuff. This is if you want to really understand how to not only analyze blood but then go through some of the stuff I we talked about of how do you interpret it once you get it? What's it mean all that?
Done for you. It's completely interpreted all the patterns and calculations that go into high performance are done for you. And then as a result of that you just spit out very high Precision supplementation nutrition and exercise protocols on the back of that. So it's not just like hey here your Labs you go figure it out. So that is coming out. That's Vitality blueprint and then our coaching program is that rapid rapid health and performance is like if you want to come in and get full immersion coaching like I sort of started with the beginning. Yeah, that's it.
That program so where can people find that I think that is rapid health report.com
will link to it in the show notes as well.
Yeah, I think it's all is or will potentially be on my website. I realize again, I'm business savvy Forte is not my thing. So probably shouldn't have all these Brands and companies going but they're all out there. So education blood work rest sleep and coaching her there and then I'll all the social medias for me is
It's all science communication. That's pretty much all I do. So if you want to learn more about the science team performance as pretty much if you don't want it like that okay
to not if that's not what you want to me don't go 2nd david.com. But if that is of Interest then certainly what we mentioned any garmin.com on social. Dr. Andy Galpin and we'll link to everything in the show notes. So if people miss anything on any government.com people go to Tim double OG / podcast will link everything we discussed.
Just in this conversation, which is going to be a lot
for the record. I made that website myself on Squarespace like seven or eight years ago. So not a lot of Standards.
All right. Well might be able to help you with an upgrade. So TBD on that. Is there anything else any that you'd like to mention or closing comments? You'd like to add before we land the plane.
I think I've had plenty of comments at this
point. All right, perfect. And
Attention, everybody will have links to everything in the show notes as per usual. It Tim dot blog / podcast and until next time train smart. Keep it green lights. Don't get injured and best of luck in the new year. Thanks for tuning in.
And now Tim and Andy discussed Tim's training regimen.
I land at altitude I will then be confronted with training decisions and my concerns are mostly around avoiding injury, right? I'm not worried about like hitting the most complex Double Black Diamond blah blah blah two weeks out of a competition. I'm doing this for fun also to get into shape, which is fine touring. I find pretty kind of self-regulating in a way. Although you have a Vilanch risk, but let's put that aside. How would you think about training this is going to be
Easy question but the lower body and the reason I ask is two seasons ago. I've been very lucky knock on what I've had very few knee issues and issues a lot of other stuff shoulder surgeries elbows surgeries, you know all sorts of issues but angles like broken Every Which Way from Sunday from all sorts of terrible Combat Sports decisions knees have been pretty good except for two years ago. I had to get medevacked out with a very impressive Tomahawk accident after hitting a ice Ridge at high speed.
Alice game so I got medevacked out for a bunch of I mean like the new was my leg was twisted around like a g.i. Joe figures bad and I felt a pop in the hip and the knee because once Kia ejected the other one didn't so as I Tomahawk like tip got caught and rotated my leg around and land and I was like fuck I'm going to wait for the tail guide to check this out and then I felt a little loose ended up ultimately getting ER MRI the whole nine and had a couple of minor injuries, but they're like your knee is
The okay, you might have like a mild tear. I think it was meniscus. They're like, but nothing really of note and I was like, huh? Okay, but there have been points for instance as my back is starting to feel better. I've slowly moved into conservative mostly ice lateral like training because part of what precipitated this I've had back issues for decades. It's just I'm a transitional segment, but my brother has the same thing lots of kind of chronic back tightness. You have a tail. I have a tail. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm gonna say now, but what really is
Y'all get what really precipitated the acute phase was back squats and here I'm sure I could dissect by mechanically why I think I fucked that up. But I've been very moderately moving into like split Squad type stuff and feeling really good feeling very good about it. But a few weeks ago felt like a little like Ping Like A little weirdness in the right knee a little tension after that with like terminal knee extension or let's just say terminal extension like when I'm walking if I try to keep your heel down, I like weird had the very end. It's a little tight on the back of
The so priority number one for me is injury prevention how might you think about getting back into skiing but doing it in a responsible way what type of training to augment with just the time on the slopes?
I will actually directly answer your question. Finally. Oh my God. Yeah.
We'll go straight Christmas comes early. Hey, let's talk about sleep. Let's talk
when you're going into a novel situation like that your hydration your sleep. We 40 talking. Those are going to be huge and then overall.
Us of all that stuff like that is by far the best place to start we've done a nauseam their we're going to go on to hear what you're talking about here. I need to know what is your you got two months. What's the rough skiing plan? Because what we want to do first and this is the same thing when we get in season for any of our athletes are in fight camp sport is first you got to get better at fighting. You got to get better hit golf balls. You gotta get better in tennis balls Etc. So tell me what that looks like and I'll reverse engineering the training brick
backwards. So what that looks like is first week. I'm actually not scheduling.
Any formal training sessions with a coach because I want to have some time simply to remember what I did last
season no point of even getting tips on technique when you're inconsistent. Yeah,
let me get in a bit of mileage. Also. Let me acclimate to altitudes that I'm not tempted to push with a coach who's also very high level skier, because I'm competitive and there's just from protecting myself from my lesser self, like week one is going to be acclimating. Let's just call it then beginning week too probably.
The minimum three days a week of training with a coach and then depending on recovery and other factors and additional 2 to 3 days of skiing most likely than after let's call it week 3 I will add in ski touring where I'm doing side or Back Country using skins where I'm basically shuffling my way up.
A mountain and then skiing down in more Backcountry powder conditions. I would say also around that time because I do well with these types of conditions, I would like to I'm not attached to it, but I think would be very interesting to do some adult race training and just working with Gates and getting very good at carving and there are other obviously aspects to that at this point in this is where I have not decided on what adjunct treatment
Training. Yep, two times supplement what I found helpful in the past. At least last season was let's just call it one or two. It's not quite Yoga Nidra, but pretty low-key. Let's just call it down regulating yoga classes week also for just hip stuff and then some type of core training their couple of great plot. He's instructors find that very very helpful for seemingly mitigating some of the lower back issues and that's about it as far.
It stands right now. So let me see if I can spit that back to you. Mmm first week. Just getting on the slopes moving. Yep. Moving around.
Yeah and Justin acclimating to altitude get in there. Okay - all
that weeks 2 to 3. We start actually getting moving. We're doing a variety of different types of skiing and styles of skiing in different areas week 328 is training where we're going to have a somewhat of a specific plan about different styles of training on different days. Mmm
and adding on conditions. Yeah, definitely right, sir.
It's like if we're training for powder, we don't have the chance my train on mobiles for a host of reasons and
yada yada yada what you just outlined is fight Camp. Hmm. It's exactly what it is. You move Week 1 you do these things and then you get into a specific plan for five to eight weeks of different things on each of the days. We have different emphasis, right? So we're boxing one day. We're wrestling another day cetera you're
doing it's the same. It's the same. It's the same thing, right? Because we like to one day. It's real carving Ephesus. We might do another day that is you know powder emphasis another day is more conditioning with the touring.
Great. So here's what I do a couple of structure things. Number one. You actually made a comment earlier that I banked not want to come back to and you sort of said you don't care about your upper body losing away you be willing to let
us know if it helps sort of looking at say Lance Armstrong post-cancer when his psych relative strength. Yeah roof. I'm willing to compromise
that for the sport understood. Yep.
Don't want to go a long way for no reason but if but if but if it's if it's if it's beneficial
power to weight ratio matters right now, I don't know a ton about skiing so I don't catch all that.
That terminology exactly but for my understanding you're going to be doing some stuff that is high speed high changed Direction high impact on joints. My sumption. Is that shorter
duration? Yeah the runs you're going to
be shorter duration. Ballpark me time 12 minutes like 2
Min I would say with the coach. Let's just say it's 2 to 5 minutes before stopping to review technique
and then some back up the mountain and then multiple runs that a day. Yeah, how many runs right wouldn't you?
Say? I mean we're going to be doing on the order of
At least I would think minimum 10 to 15 total
runs. Okay. Yep. The other days are more when you're doing like the touring
stuff. Oh, yeah, that's going to be you might spend an hour or two going up and then you get 10 turns in deeper powder. I mean ideally you get more than 10 turns but the ratio of let's just call it uphill to downhill is heavily tilted to uphill where you're doing a lot of
conditioning and very
You taking more like steady state though more like many hours of
going up. This would be the steady
state. Yeah, great.
And this would be in the sort of go heavy. Go along go hard. This would be like the go
long. Yeah, how many days a week total seven six five? I would
say I will likely increase the volume each week because my recovery will just be compromised in the beginning as I'm acclimating to altitude cetera. So I would say my goal
Could be by week.
Three that I'm at minimum four days a week. It would not be seven days a week. I will have at least one full day of recovery because I've just found that I need that
you have to have said, okay great. The reason I ask like a body is when you're moving on skis like that. And again, I do minimally about it you're having poles
and you will get some upper body like you are using
your body. There's actually classic data as waiting for the most part looking at cross-country skiers. This is like our study was in that but if you actually the biopsy data that I've done a deltoid so shoulder muscle you can
A 95 percent reduction in muscle glycogen content if you were to look at and something like glycogen depletion. Yeah in the quads if you get to like 50 60 % we call that
depleted
so you can torch your shoulders for
sure and also triceps you can see the smoke your
triceps. And the reason I'm saying that is going back to your back and knee because if we are now either compromise strength or Endurance on our shoulders, and now we're getting up or down hill or control via other mechanisms. Hmm. We're probably
Putting undue stress in those positions.
Yeah, let me add something to that because what you just brought up raise this and that is your 100% right? It's not going to be to the cross-country skiing is like Nordic skiing is insane. It is just like torture personified. I mean
the cardiovascular capacity is so outraged
absurd absurd. So I'm not doing that. I mean there are cardiorespiratory demands placed on me in touring, but I'm I won't get into all the details, but it's far less than cross-country, but
Point yes, I'm using the upper body and one of the question marks that has existed in my mind since last season is how much to work on various types of notation because where I found my back can get quite grumpy is when you're skiing at a steeper inclines. Yes. Sorry buddy. It's getting very personalized. You're not you. All right. Yeah, I'm not sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm not. Sorry. Your skis might be.
Facing across the slope, but you often want your body your chest to be facing down thus yeah. So there's a lot of rotation. There's like disassociation of the Torso. Yeah almost and that is something I think that a lot of skiers underestimate in terms of the toll and the tax I can take especially if you have mobility issues or any type of type of
Orthopedic issues. Okay, so big picture wise what I would do is set up your week and we need to make sure that we're doing this in a way where we understand our higher impact days and are hard fatigue.
Is yep, and what you want to avoid is doing something in both of those categories on all our most days and so I personally generally like to stack red on red what I mean by that is if you're going to have a really challenging session say it's the touring when you guys really get going and you're cutting your sharp you're moving. This is torsion on the back, right? It is impact. It is also probably more focused because there's like crash and burn faster speeds all that stuff. Okay. This is high physiological demand. This is high energy demand and this is high neurological.
The band also high stress. Yeah. Okay. That's a read write a stack that rib when it comes to your training. Now. I'm thinking this is a good day to go hard counterintuitive, but I want to go hard on heart right on red on red because the next day we're going to come back and probably do green whatever that means that could be your Pilates from your total off day or this could be one of the other skis sessions that is a very low technical recovery movements something like that. This is something of there and then we can come back and stack probably.
Like an orange yellow whatever you want to call it kind of in the mid. This is where you're accumulating volume, right? So this is we're building up. This is maybe the longer State.
Yes. So the red might be the steeper gnarlier stuff. Yep with some higher speed carving and then green is actually maybe a touring day. I mean it's going to be like slow and steady but not
redlining. Yeah, you don't want to like yellow
line. Okay, then maybe something else maybe some drilling like drilling like single-leg practice stuff like
that. It is high technical feedback.
Stuff. Yeah, exactly High technical feedback stuff. And then the maybe the Orange is the moderate touring something like that and
it is exactly you want to do right? So we're going to take all that and the first thing I want to say is let's lay out specifically when we're doing if we can the skiing components over the course of a week and then we're going to build in some sort of intentional down-regulation work to supplement that stuff. Right? So when we go red on red then we are paying that
back and when you say red on red that's in a single day think of a yep
because there's some we're going to do a training session asking session a day.
Or something, right? Okay got it.
So you're gonna do your hard hard red skiing session and then we're going to come back and either do some Pilates to unwind we're going to do maybe a lift that day going to do something else depending on or rat, right? We're typically doing some multiple physical exposures in one day at some form or fashion. I that's what I mean when I say if it's a single session is fine single session red is fine. It's going to carry over to the next day, right? So there's residual fatigue. There are some other changes you want to pay attention to so either way we're going to finish that day.
Strong down-regulation, right really going too fast recovery into that the next day then we get a paid out tool back. Okay, and this is again technical
work. Yes, and I'm saying this as much for myself why I am saying for myself, but like the slow restorative yoga was fantastic for down-regulation scores. That's where the day ends.
Yep. Love that stuff. I would actually like to also see make sure that that session is maybe not full 90 minutes if it's long or even maybe 60 Minutes is may be enough because we just want restoration if it'll work fine. Thanks.
If you like no, I leave there and I feel more energetic more feel Unwound.
Oh, I basically feel like a mobile sleep because it's also really dark studio. So perfect perfect
amazing on that. So we would lay out the entire week on the skills there and this would progress over time. So the Reds get a little bit harder the green Stay Green. This is a major mistake
that Rift green
drift everybody dress, right you end up just having a bunch of medium stuff, which is great. You got accumulate volume there, but the way that I want you to reframe, this is when you're thinking of red we're thinking about
Out maximal capacity. Can I perform under these maximal conditions right you are holding on you are getting after it when we get into the other session. We're not working on conditioning at this point. We are working on technical capacity. It is practice. The general rule of thumb is probably something like 20% of the time can be read and almost everything else needs to be practice or recovery much more than that depends on your unique physiology. But with all you got going on new to the altitude injury history.
I'm going to hedge way
more conservatively. I would also say my recovery capacity is broadly speaking a pretty low. I mean, I would just say I'm a slower I'm slower to recover than a lot of my friends who are competitive athletes. Yeah who I trained with same workload kind of same diet same habits, and I'm just I'm slower to recover.
Yeah, that's another metric. We actually we always bucket. So I want to sell your total group cover capacity and then it goes back to earlier. It's that nonspecific stressors get those out of your life and watch your recovery capacity just take off so we will want to work on that one, huh?
Your percent nonetheless. This is the in part, right? The recovery capacity is give me my other stuff and I'll get that up higher. This is what I have time for that. Let's just make sure the input the stressors going in from what we can control our not out kicking our capacity to recover. This is where the problems start to exist. We want out. Kick them a little bit hmm gasps trisystem physiology isn't change about stress, but we can't exponentially increase our injury or overuse risk, right? You will see the back lock up 100% during this time right now because of injury there but because Global stress got high centered.
Systems that I don't like what's going on here. I'm going to stop him. I'm throttling him back pain pain pain pain pain tight tight tight. That's effectively what's happening? No real actual change there but it is a global regulator. It's the governor saying lockup right? That's what's happening. So we're gonna stretch that we got that way. I want a full layout of the seven days. We want to put in all those other practices around that we're going to build the schedule then from there. We're going to work our training backwards around that so when we look at that, we need unwinding sounds like you're getting that from yoga and
pilates meditational side.
I'm generally when I am I a better self meditating twice a day 20 minutes basic TM stuff
transitional and breath work on top of that or that
is just the intelligent breathwork. I'm not doing much independent breathwork. I mean what I do find helpful and I can make time for this is using something like there's a device called the O2 trainer. It's not even sure what the sort of general term would be
its respiratory train, you know, what is respirator training and yeah, I do
find those extremely helpful on
Number of
levels funny you mention the O2 trainer that research came from my lab. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Yeah, there we go.
So that's boss routines. That's frustrating. Yeah. I haven't had them on the podcast. That's when I start using it in preparation for high-altitude hunt. Yeah and found it tremendously helpful. Yeah. Okay, since it came from your lab just 60 seconds sure just a brief overview of what we talked
about. We touched a lot on respiratory rate. The reason respiratory rate can be either dysfunctional or even to suboptimal.
Optimal which are different is because of a number of things I talked to you about it could be pattern recognition could be psychophysiological right? What I never even got to was good bball chemical. That would be CO2. That would be pH levels, right? You're trying to restore their the third one is it can simply be mechanical right? And so this is intercostal muscles. So these are the little muscles that are in between your ribs as well as your diaphragm. When you contract those that open up the cavity of the lungs which allows to change pressure on that matters is the real issue is
Altitude and people say this all the time, but there is not less oxygen at altitude. There's the same amount of oxygen at 10,000 feet is there is at sea level but the partial pressure in the air is different. It's much lower. And so when you open your mouth the gradient the difference between the pressure in your lungs and the outside environment is less. It's almost the same so are doesn't go anywhere. And so what you need to do is be able to create a huge amount of increase in volume as your maybe the where the relationship between pressure and volume you open that up and then allow air to come in so
So what the O2 trainer does is it restricts airflow in and so you actually have to actively pull it's like strength training your intercostals and your diaphragm so we can do that to give yourself more ability while it also matters through fatigue is those muscles are like any other muscle they fatigue. So when you lose that ability you lose the ability to bring an error like during acute exercise. So that becomes a problem. Another free way to do it is this is when nasal breathing can work so nasal breathing alone as in closing your mouth is a
Segue to force in our consoles and diaphragm to really get on board because you're restricting total are you're effectively doing altitude now, I'm telling it. Now this something you want to necessarily do you shouldn't be doing like nasal only breathing when you're at maximum heart rate doesn't really make any sense to do though. You have a mouth like for a reason, but if you have significant problems breathing at moderate to medium intensities 02 trainer great or nasal breathing or any other tools, but it's effectively getting at respiration train.
Yeah, and that came in because you're a
Asking if I do separate breath work and I would say outside of I often wonder how much of we don't need to diverge here. But how much of the benefit of meditation is from just measured slow breathing versus good posture versus it's a bigger thing I G there. Yes, let's leave that alone, but I would say right now. No, I'm not doing separate
breathwork. Okay, maybe not you again. Let's take a look at CO2 tolerances take a look at mechanics how you're moving how you're breathing potentially. I don't know if you guys cover this in your combo with Eric or not, but you know where your ribs that are you have excessive.
Flaring it's something that I've been working on a lot in the last let's call it six to 12 months. Just having my awareness brought to it. But generally yes quite a bit of flair. Yeah.
Yeah. It's pretty easy that that'll kick off the diaphragm pretty quickly right inhibits in so becomes a problem. So we would look biomechanically. We would look at it chemically and then we would look at pattern. It's like a physiologically something like there but that would be the place to start to figure it out. Okay, you may or may not need rough work that doesn't necessarily need to happen. It also can can be detrimental.
Meditation the same thing. It's almost like as an aggregate. It's generally very very very positive to extremely positive when there's also subsets of folks were breathwork is maybe not a great option right is not necessarily Justice Panacea of everyone go down regulation breath work particularly if your HRV is extremely high. So you're very persistent pathetic and this is actually happened again. This is rare more common is what we've been describing but has happened we have had folks that have very high hrvs. So if you're using a device
Aura that's getting you just once every five minute Mark we're talking about people's overnight HRV averages of 150 milliseconds 170 milliseconds really really high which may or may not be a problem at all could be totally normal for you easy. No problem at the same time. They have a respiratory rate of nine rest for a minute. Okay, then maybe totally normal, especially if you're super fit any time we're running through physiology. We're never taking action on one metric just way too many things that could be explained what's going on there, but if you couple that with
Lethargy can't get out of bed performance numbers are down no motivation Drive things like that. If you think that person is burnt out and you give them a bunch of down-regulation work. Yeah, right going to be a problem going to be a
real yo-yo pushing the slider in the wrong
direction push the slide on the wrong direction for Sharp. So then again that's more typical is up regulation. We need to bring you back down but just I just feel like it's important to say that because some people go out there and just have everyone down regulate and you're like well little time out here you may or may not need breath.
Howell, this is a baseline tool right for sure. So I want something in there too after those sessions hit and we've got that big fear to go. Okay, let's bring it back down that could be very very low volume strength work. If we feel like we have a little bit of an issue with under regulation. This
is where I was going to go next. So I'm curious to
hear ya more about this. So I want to make sure that you're strong in strong positions. So everything you outlined is going to be steady state endurance ever.
A a somewhat limited range of motion. Mmm, you've also outlined and I'm just making assumptions here. But when you're doing a lot of those fast turns it's a greater range of motion that your knees and hips because you're cutting at a faster angle.
Yeah, and you're doing stuff that scares the shit out of me that is helpful for skiing like kind of this is not the right term but like buckling the knees laterally to
get higher edge angle. Yeah makes sense and lean. Yep sort of the tire. I get it. All right great. So that's actually a high-velocity eccentric control. We want to make sure
We come back in and re-establish a proper pattern over the same range of motion in fast. We'll walk through like exact examples here in one second. But we're walking from the top down. I want to know what your week look like. What's this gang now that we understood that now we're back feeling in all of our needs. Okay, so we needed the down regulation so that we don't just get the entire system to lock up on us we needed now to look at our physical attributes. Okay, can we come back and re-establish proper movement patterns what I mean by that is you are going to when you're on those slopes you're going to default to your movement and breathing patterns.
Is that of the lowest common recipe right hedging against that and that's when we come back and we do our pelvic floor stuff. We do whatever stuff that you're doing. This is hey now, this is the way we want to sequence. So you're just continually reminding it that how much transfer that has over to your skis. I don't care. Hopefully a lot but even one percent it's better than 0 NE % carryover we can get from them at this point. We probably don't need to spend a lot of time on maximum speed and power that's not a rate limiting factor. We would have done this in the offseason or some other issues,
right?
A day late and a dollar short totally but we
need to make sure your hips and particular and feet are functioning appropriately as well as your shoulders and that's like those are the areas. I'm going to go after and making sure we have proper stability and then we have strengthened them. You're going to get a lot of muscular endurance on the slopes. I'm not super concerned about that. I want low volume high quality strength. I don't really need maximal strength at this point, but I kind of want to touch the envelope a little bit here. I want to get up to Tim. Give me a heavy heavy double. Give me a heavy triple know.
No smelling salts
don't like like
I don't need that but we want to touch more than you probably want to do.
Okay, so the maybe this isn't the right way to reference it. Like what percentage of one rep max we talking for those doubles and triples 85. Okay. All right. It's up
there. No, you're going. Yeah your morning want to do. Yeah for sure. Okay, but we don't need you 95. Yeah, I don't need you at a to rep max. Yeah. All right. I want you feeling again heavier than you want to
feel so you're doing a to with what you might be able to do for.
And if my mouth is panning out here 66, okay. All right. Got it. Got it. That's right. Just to sort of make it concrete for my something. Will you go Angel attention knuckle-dragging? Yeah, so the double could be with a weight where you would say about it six to eight
60s some something like that. I don't actually I'm not super concerned about the exact numbers here. What I'm concerned about is is it at a level where you sufficiently have to be paying attention? You have to be ready to go right? We're not sending a work text and in the middle of like yes that right
right. I'm not listening to dense podcast.
All I'm doing
this totally. I also don't want it at such an intensity or volume that it's now escalating recovery. And in a negative fashion.
I got it, right. You're not digging the hole deeper. That's right.
Don't want to dig a hole. Any deeper fatigue is really interesting whether you're looking at endurance or strength. However you want to do it. This is basic physiology stuff. It doesn't go linearly. There's a little bit of an asymptote here and there's a little bit of an exponential growth such that going from a 10% increase in intensity. So 50 to 60 percent is almost
So identical in terms of recoverable volume. So the amount of volume you could do. Let's say skiing at 50% of your max heart rate is pretty much the same as what you could do is 60% There'll be very little changes. But if you go from 80% to 90% they'll be dramatic increases in time. It takes to recover and you already we know just based on what you've told me earlier probably struggle on the higher end of the spectrum, right? And so getting into the real high in terms of recovery recovery. Yeah. So your recover maximal recoverable volume is mrv is kind of how we talk about a lot is low. Yep for higher intensity stuff.
Now I'd be interested to see what your muscle physiology looks like. Would you generally consider yourself more fast-twitch result, which just off the cuff it seemed more festive. Yeah, that's always the answer right? That's me. Hmm my fatigue my soreness from Power have you strength stuff is really really high. Yeah when those things because I'm particularly good at that stuff. Well it for my own
self me when I and look you're much more sophisticated is with this stuff. But when in my own primitive way when I've been my absolute strongest, I'm generally take like seven to nine days between yeah.
Work out. Yeah and super long rest
intervals. Yeah, of course, right because if not, this is not necessarily that you pretentiously respond better. That training is the fact that the hole gets dug so deep if you do more than that hmm, your maximum recovery volume is super low yellow, right so we can get up. Okay, so we want to pay attention to that. That's basically what I'm looking at, right? So we're going to do some stuff for Global tour. So think of this as trap are deadlift, right? So we want to make sure that shoulder position is appropriate hip position and we're putting strength in the posterior side, and we're just
Remembering
strength if I have had a history specifically trap are deadlift. I'm not sure why for decades. I was totally fine Trapper deadlift, you're going to love this and then I did a going from zero tennis to spending seven to ten days with a pro and Florida doing like eight hours a day of tennis. Hmm Tamar technically reels made tons of progress horse. And then I came back and I was doing a strop are deadlift and my right S. I was like clunk and ever since I've actually had I've gone through periods of it improving getting worse.
Who knows it's exactly the SI but I've had issues with both trap bar and say back squatting type movements. Yep, where I worry about the low back and the hip so I'm wondering if throw it
off. Yeah pick a different exercise, right? We're almost always tool agnostic, right it is what's the thing? We're trying to get to and we'll pick a bunch of tools based on
that so I could do some split stance or you know, I
see laterals is handsome to be better for you to handle a guy or suppose science entirely.
We're both single leg. I would say just seems to be safer. I don't run into the same package.
Okay, do a single leg leg press. Yep for all I care. Yeah, I like who cares right different. Now we got to do something to back later. But fine. Yeah, I think we can make that work we can do hip thrusting. Hmm. Lots of ways we can go about single
leg leg. Press is how I've been edging back into the like training which is overall going very well with that one strange like piano wire nuts. Napa liked Wing that I felt a couple of weeks ago. So this is just recent that
The two or three weeks ago. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah
great. We could do slide drags, right we could push and pull things that are really heavy for a few steps. All of these things are going to be fine. So my guess is if you were to do something like that, you'd probably be fine that particular position. It is being stuck in a position under load that really give you problems. So I would look and see when we get out to the place where what equipment we have and then we'll work around that. That's the approach could be like split stance even potentially elevated one foot over head.
Pressing for your shoulders things like that. Let's get your back at the equation, but I don't want it gone. So that's the real biggie. You said a second ago terminal extension of your right leg when it's trailing. Okay, great. So let's put it internal extension. I want your right leg behind on what your right heel on the ground. I want you terminally locking out your knee and then we're going to do over head movement. And so what we're doing is in that case, we're not training the leg per se we got that under stuff, but we're connecting it to the rest of the movement Group which is to say you never get the time off. You are always practicing that movement when distracted that's going to tell us do you own that position do
Really have that. Is that going to Min transfer on the slopes? That's what we're after learning movement. And this is a general problem physiology. I think we've done a huge disservice teaching systems as if they are separate everyone makes and says, oh, yes, they're not but then we go right back to treating it system a system. If we want to improve movement, that means that foot heel connection needs to be worked on in all of our practices, right? We just don't let it go. That's just the new ingrained system. So I would do that. I would say the same thing.
Nothing for our rotational work. It's really weird people get to rotation and they all said and just forget to strength train, right and they get to rotation there. Like I'll just do sets at a nerd like what why? Yeah. Well, why is that the only answer you want to be strong this way and this way right great. So we're going to have the same movement patterns that we're going to get there
when you're doing let's just say to rep sets three rep sets. Yeah doesn't have to be right now, but I'd love to know what we're talking about in terms of total volume number of sets exactly what's
going on. You can use a very easy rule of
325 method now every time I say this the entire internet comes after me. Yes, I didn't invent it. No, like it's been around for a very long time 325 which this means is 3 to 5 days per week pick three to five exercises do three to five sets three to five reps per set three to five minutes rest. So what that means that could be on the high end five days a week five sets of five of five exercises. That's a long workout. That's a
if you start adding up the rest are rules
right if you start adding up,
The rest of the holes and even if you cheat the rest of the rules and you do that at the appropriate load 5 by 5 is anyone who's truly strength trained that is a beast as is another word. I was wanting to save it all I'll pass on saying it like starts with an M and F involved in it. It's a load, right? It can be as little as three days a week three exercises three sets of three. That's probably what I'd had more
to you. Yes that I'm not digging any deeper with my already limited 100% coverage ability.
So if I were to give you like just one example, but actual full training
For you, I'm missing a bunch of information here. But just as the sample here, I would probably say if you're skiing initially five days a week as a way of call it I probably want roughly Wednesday. I want almost as a peer recovery day. We are going to potentially do some sort of movement. So your PT or your actual movement coach respiratory muscle hip adductors. Whatever that little thing is we need to get activated. So any hygiene we have from whoever's
Coaching there. We want to get done. We're doing our hot cold Sonic thing you want to do that outside, right? You want to go to your breath work outside is get hot like any of those things you like to do for Recovery. Wednesday's as an example. Is that day? That's it catch up on work maybe for a few hours. We're going to keep that thing. We're resetting. We're checking hydration or sleep extension were napping. We're getting PT massage soft tissue. All that stuff is Wednesday, and that's Wednesday. This is also the day we you do something. That is obnoxious.
So selfish you want to play three hours of video games great. Like what is the thing you love to do that? You don't like let yourself
do yeah World of Warcraft. Well, I'm getting a mani-pedi. Yeah, Petty probably need my hands. Yeah, that's fantastic. Right
that is that date. We may or may not incorporate a low-intensity walk. This is potentially getting out and now you're going to have a lot of nature exposures to refine
their I will likely also do a lot of walking in place of sitting so in place of Zoom calls in place of that type of
Thing I'll do a low-intensity walking.
Yeah. If not, we'd say walk outside for some chunks two walks two time at walks a day morning and some like that any other adjunctive therapies and tools and Technologies were using is going to be that day, right? So that's amazing. Let's just say I'm just going to make them example. You're just gonna run the whole thing. Let's just say Monday. Is that really hard red day you go on that really hard session on the scope. We're going to come back after that final session. We might go straight to the gym. You really warmed up and we're going to do three by three. Okay, we're going to probably do that like rear stands.
Our foot elevated front foot elevated elevated overhead, press something like that. Now in this particular case, I'm probably not doing three sets of three. I might ask you to go and like fives the upper body doesn't tend to respond to lower rep ranges as well as the lower body. Just a you won't see too many guys who are really really excellent at bench, press who only do singles or doubles they tend to do probably closer to 3 to 4 to 5 S lower bodies like generally opposite. So doing like a an overhead, press double by the time you get it up and get the first wrap up doesn't work.
It also might behoove me to use slightly lighter loads for anything overhead, which I've avoided completely for probably half a year because of the compression sensitivity. Yeah, so I have I've done very less very little spinal
loading angle it so let's just do incline. Yeah same thing. Okay, like Jammer, press like 45 degree. If you've got a landmine some other way, perfect. We need to just be at an angle here. It doesn't have to be perfectly overhead something like that. Okay, so I'm probably doing that. I want some sort of lower body.
Similar vein this could be threes. I love if you have a heavy sled you can push for like three steps each leg. That would be great. If you've got some sort of potentially front squat goblet squat zuercher squat something like that that is not aggravating of any of your things when we're saying 3x3 to 80% This is still weak one so I don't care if this is 60% It doesn't matter like we're just going through the
motions in a favorite split stance or ice lateral like movements just
In my particular case the sled is interesting. I responded well to sleds in the past. So I'll look for that. It may be my equipment options might be limited. What would be an alternative
step-ups great. Super basic step up right like hold onto dumbbells or kettlebells. Yeah just be really careful. A lot of people will like to progress this by going to a higher step. Hmm, which is great, but we have to be really careful of how much hip flexion and how much load we put on hip flexion for you now at the same time if we go at a low
Say 12 inch box or something. We're really not getting much movement here other than a basic knee extension. We want to think and kind of plates at
this and my low back responds very well to the type of glute activation that I experienced through
step-ups high angle or the angle. Hi box below box.
I have only done lower box even at low box assuming that I'm and this is getting into the weeds. But when I sort of do like their verstegen like pick the knee up, yeah and really get that support leg glute contraction my low back response.
Very well to
them. Okay. Let me ask you one question. This is her super technical here when you're on that box. Let's just say you're doing a step up with your left foot. Okay to make it easy. You have the left foot over there. Where is your body at relatives your left foot? And where's your knee at?
Hmm? Well the way I've been doing these step-ups is actually a sort of cross lateral step. Oh sure and then curtsy squat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so okay. Yeah, so I'm going to come in that but I'm open to
Ever you would suggest that has the lowest injury
potential. Yeah. So you're doing that and feeling a great glue contraction because you're Crossing. Okay, that's great. Only reason I ask that is because depending on where your foot position is this can dramatically change hamstring glute activation, right? And so are you stepping up with Annie related activity you stepping up with a hamstring and glute rather than
activity. I'm not sure. Yeah to be
honest. So if your foot is way on front of you so you can imagine your kind of as you go to step up your rocking forward and then coming up right or if it's behind you, right?
Door same thing is behind you. None of these things are right or wrong. Right should your knees go past your toes. Well, what do we trying to do here? The more our Negroes pass our toes the more it's going to be knee related the more it stays behind in the more. It's going to be most feared typically write as a general rule. So what are we trying to get response to potentially your quads? Are we? Yep now when you're getting feeling great response from single leg pressing depends on how your setup is, you might be in a situation where you feel better when your quads quads
got I can tell you I'm setting up for the
Single like like yes, I'm actually placing foot very high on the platform.
What kind of platform is this here?
Well, let's just say on a leg, press we've got this rectangle in front of us. Yeah. I am putting the foot quite High On That platform so that it would be the I guess maybe the equivalent of rocking forward in
this step has a very high hip
flexion very high hip flexion. Yeah, and because the more I feel it in the glue together the low back
feels. Yeah. Okay. So what you're getting is contraction over stretch, which is great.
So Contracting over this is why full range of motion stuff is such a good idea, right? It needs to be strong over those long positions right Charlie wine golf all day right like long strong and then work hard. Okay, so we want to be in a position. I'm not going to suggest that the standard step up positions any better if you're having success with how complicated things like low back or if you're having success with that modified Kersey step up and I would stay like probably right there. Okay, which is great. The only thing we might want to do is potentially load it more. I don't know how you're doing now
as far as step.
Skull I've been doing it unloaded like this is by our bodyweight only and then I've moved into loading with the leg press because there are just fewer variables. Yeah that play and I'm like, all right. Let me see how I progressed with this.
Yeah, I would do the same thing. By the way the record like if we started loading currency notes are very low like right now, let's not go the wrong direction. Yeah. All right. Let's to take our winds went to blackjack table. We won one hand. Let some step-ups you were
saying sort of below or 12 inches or below like you're not really getting a b and c if you're trying to like win a world record and
You're trying to do like a four foot step up. You got your own set of problems. Like
how do you think about Ellie? It's because of hip flexion. It's the same thing as you already answered the question. I was coming out of this way, right which is if it's at a very low position than it you're basically getting most drive from your knee extension initially to get you moving. This is Jenna it's going to happen. But if you put it at a really high position, you're automatically putting your hip and really high flexion. So your thigh gets really close to your ribcage. Now, we have to work the glute and I need doesn't mean you're not you working your knee as well could be very neat heavy driven still doesn't matter, but you've now for
Glue to work over a high range of motion, which is what we're after. Yep people tend to avoid range of motion when they have things like back injuries that's oftentimes the wrong direction like you want to make sure without exacerbating pain, of course, but it probably wants to be opened up a little bit and the hip needs to be so I would keep it there. I also made ditch that and go to straight hip extension. This is this is good with the hip thrusts. Have you done those before? I have done hip
thrusts. I mean we talked about like barbell across the yeah. It's type stuff. Yep.
I have gorgeous.
Thrust yeah,
for whatever reason especially if it's Single Leg if I keep the elevation pretty low. In other words if I'm not getting to like Max terminal and fix attention hip extension. I'm usually okay it can cause my spinal Erectors to fire. No. Yeah. Yeah, and and that sometimes gets me into a spasmed situation where it's
problematic. Yep 100% So you're getting extension from lumbar spine. Yes dead
of but for instance if I keep my hips somewhat low. Let's just say I'm using a Swiss ball or something like
And I'm doing like he'll roll out Spencer really getting the hamstring. Yeah, then I'm fine. Yep, but higher weight if I'm really making the effort to go full range. My spinal Erectors can really get over activated and stay over
activity. Yeah, so you just want to stay on those situations. Yeah. This is why I like it would be impossible. Glad you're letting us do this by the way, because typically on podcast they kind of just like, what's the yeah. What's the cookie cutter like you
can oh, this is really cute. And I know this is really self-indulgent everybody. So I appreciate you bearing with but you know what I would have
Said because I record the interest after these conversations but like you get to the universal through the personal in the sense that if you've had any degree of injuries, if you've just lived life aggressively it's never going to be cookie-cutter one-size-fits-all. You're going to have to Zig and zag like we're doing right now. So yeah, this is I appreciate you being game to do it also because you're going to have to Zig and zag with the stuff. So yeah with the hip bridging if I keep my hips kind of low and I'm let's say targeting the hamstrings that it works. But otherwise what I've realized with this low backs.
His if it gets super hypertonic, like if my spinal art is just like turn on and they refuse to turn off that can last two
days or more and or three days.
Yeah, fuck's up my sleep. So
badly and everything else and every yeah digestion all of it and we were going to do anything. Yeah. Okay, so I would just given the fact you've had some success with what you're currently doing and those other ones are marginally helpful than just ditch. Mm. Yeah at this point is is like green only. Yeah green yellow orange is out like that.
The only other thing I'd say is let's change the positions entirely which is okay. How about you said you had success in areas where you make the hamstrings work really hard. So let's do a hamstring curl on a machine take the back entirely out of the equation. I get out retrain glutes contract hamsters contract when we don't give the spinal Erectors and even an option to come because it sounds like once they come to the party when your front squatting when you're back squatting when you're doing hip thrusts or glute Bridges, they haven't learned to play their position
yet.
It's like that that one friend everybody has it shows up at the party drinks too much starts yelling and screaming. You're psycho.
God just don't bite on the part of
this guy again. Yeah. Yeah, you'll get called
the party for a while. Yeah, if you're just gone right we can do some other stuff there what you're going to eventually want to build to is integration, which is okay. Now, we need to learn to go glutes hamstring low back firing sequence right glute and hamstring low back or right now for a while to make sure that your quads hamstrings and glutes are truly conditioned or isolating and until we get out of
Pain, that's where it is. So I don't even care to him. I would do leg extension on leg extension machine leg curl in your situation where you're at and limited resources. Probably not full-time PT, like remember folks like this is this situation here and then we're going to slowly in our warm ups and cooldowns do sequence movement patterns that go glute ham string low back and just to start like hey remember this is the pattern we want to be in. Okay now we're not going to expose you to load of fatigue. We're going to do that in our isolation work.
But then we'll come back and in our cooldowns are going to go through that. I would also then build you out a specific warm-up that you do every day prior to skiing. That is the same sequencing. Yep. Right could be a thousand different little things we do we're going to do a couple of drills and I'm literally talking four minutes of work, right? We're just remembering proper glute sequencing and this is a combination to around this last point out because we haven't got to Tuesday yet.
I still more questions about Monday. But yeah,
well folks I'm having a ton of fun. So I hope they are too.
In getting to that is we need to make sure a part of that equation is your chest and your thoracic spine and your rib cage because we can't then rebuild the lower sequence without and then just let the rims to it that natural thing. And so we don't want to be a situation where were like locked out. We got like breathe everything so tight what is like, no this needs to be moved functional position. You actually be sort of surprised how much that will carry over if you give it time. You're not going to see significant changes in your posture low back pain and three days by doing
A four minute warm up, but in a year later. Yeah, this is kind of have substantial and
what would some of the what might that warm-up look
like? Yeah. Okay. So one of the things I'm probably start you with is a basic diaphragm warm up. Okay, so this could be as simple as let's lay on your back. Let's go in a heels to your butt position. So knees are up on their your feet are flat on the floor and your heels are right up against your butt. Okay. Now you're going to take your hands and put them around your stomach. So just below your ribcage and we're just going to use your breath to expand your hands.
So pushing it out there, right? Okay, great. Three or four breaths. Probably nasal only. Okay. Awesome. Now we're going to do a glute Bridge. Can we get that same position? I'm going to make sure as high as you can go six inches two inches an inch off the ground. I don't care only as high as you can go and we're probably going to tuck our chin, right? This is almost automatically going to keep your position out of extension in your low back. So we're going to tuck your chin just a little bit there and we're going to breathe three breaths for breasts
while you're
bridged while we're Bridge right and Watch What Happens?
Reset yourself come back up and watch you've gained 8 inches in your hip extension guaranteed because not you've actually stretched anything but you've turned signals off right now almost totally projecting here, but I'm pretty confident right now. You're in a position to our anytime you get any perception through your lower back just goes
lock. Yeah this the the governor's just like Bingo turn it off shut off the yeah, you have to turn it off right of throw the switch
to throw the switch. I'll send booming hip extension and now it's not coming from your lumbar spine, right?
And we're doing this still in a tuck position and we're going to inches lower than you want to go to gold as high as you want to go takes to stay green. Totally Stay Green. Where did you some breath work there and by breath work again? Yeah, Brethren us three. Yeah, three of them four five. Whatever you want doesn't matter then come back down reset come back up one more time. You'll be up for more inches. Like if you're doing this at home, you're gonna be like, oh my God is it works perfectly. I might have you going to one leg position. So you're going to hold that position on one leg. Say kick your right leg out keep your knees identical to each other and kick the right leg out and now
We have Epsilon will control. All right. So now are we have torso rotation? And we also have that term will hip extension and now can you still breathe what happened to your ribs Bingo? Right? You're going to see a guarantee you soon as you do that you look down you love arched right ribs have gone up. This is not a locked-in hard contraction. This is a chill position, right? It has to be. All right. I'm relaxed here. I'm breathing. There's gonna be a little bit of shaking because you're going to single leg position, but not much 3458, press switch to the next one. Take a break in between like those details aren't what
Matter here. You're just trying to slowly let the system know these are okay positions. You can relax we're safe here. So I would probably go into that then come back down. That's a symbol sequence. We are 45 seconds in at this point and I guarantee you stand up in your posture will be better. Right you'll be out of that little bit of a curve from there. I would probably then take that exact same thing and go into a split stance. So imagine you could do this walking lunges. I would probably do this with a slight rotation, but I still want your hands around your stomach. So we're still watching.
The distance between your Ribbon enter your superior iliac spine that Asis that front point of your hip you're going to pay attention that if you want to put your thumb and your Pinkie put your thumb below your rib, but your pinky on your Asis while you're doing these lunges and make sure that distance isn't changing and just breathe to a stop all the way down. If you want to play here. That's fine. Let's go a little bit rock your knee over your ankle Rock backwards a little bit. Give me a little bit of a rotation if you want to do a little bit of an arch if your your right knee is forward in this lunge position and you want to take your
Left arm and reach it over top of your head. I'm going to rotate it. You want to twist it any of those things are fine, but the key is here. We're not doing these because we have a check box that says this is my warm up intention is everything here as soon as you lose intention to stop because we're trying to make sure we have a specific action not just like coach said I have to warm up
and so it's a big action in this case is making sure you're not flaring making sure that yet torso position. That's correct in terms of like distance from rib cage to yeah, Asis
sell it like
Bony protrusion on the front of the hip folks like if you see someone wearing Lo jeans and you see the yeah like ridges in the
front. Yeah the arrow that points.
Yeah. Exactly. Okay, so that that is the intention then it's not just like I'm doing my eight steps. It's like no you're doing your eight steps, but the purpose is to maintain. Yeah in
his own reasoning not even necessarily like the other classic things that are associated with a physical warm up, like actual temperature increases being metabolically efficient in the muscle having more strength and power production.
Auction that's coming to but we've slid that in we've also slid in breath work because you're actually now altering O2 and CO2 on purpose and you've done that on top of correcting movement patterns, and now you're re-establishing that so I would argue in love to do this Barefoot sure if possible, right? So your toes are all the way up are engaging. I want in this particular case that heel connection to be strong. I don't want you driving only through your heel you're going to be driving using your whole foot. Let's next make sure we're not forgetting our toes in our feet super important first game.
Very important. It is importan your
foot awareness and control is super super
boring everything right? If you want to do a little more ski specific here you could do actually or little more fun. You could take a little slide pad. So it's like the size of a shoe if you will if you can put on a surface that slides and put that on your back foot and let that slide back and forth. So you lose them some stability that back leg which is then just going to further exacerbate neurological control and it's going to remind you at all times. Do you know where everything is moving?
All right. So we're talking your adductors are now moving you're talking your hip extensors and you flexors are all working on both sides and we're getting am I controlling my breath and my controlling my ribs? So I would probably add a few of those in again one. Can me once at 6 to 12 per leg. I don't really care. There's no magic thing. We're trying to get here or three minutes in that maximum here. You've now got an entire lower body. The hips have been moved and isolated were activated we would do something like that. If you have any specific things in this is why I don't have Insight but
If you had any hey, yeah. Mymy right act doctors weaker than my left or it's overused or resilience is something like that. Then we would add in specificity here. Let's get your left glute need on so we'll do some standing clamshells will do some lateral walks with whatever the case is that we need to get going there. And we're in pretty good position last thing we would do is then go to your upper body and make sure that we're having a connection between our upper body to our toe all the way up and down. So this could be throwing some stew McGill. So throwing hand leg opposite here. We could do
that leg opposite meaning like birds.
Dog something like that.
Yeah, so you're on quadropod, right? So your hands are on the ground you're on your knees and you would say lift your left hand all the way out in front of you. So we would be over your head. But you're on your knees and then at the same time your right leg is extending back. And so you're getting a very strong right glute contraction. That's Crossing that facial line to your left shoulder. And now that entire thing is in sequence at the same time. Your core is working on rotation while remember what happened your rib cage.
Yeah, and we'll link to all this in the show notes guys. So yeah fuel
The find these things
something simple like that would be probably what to do. The very very last thing I would do then would be some sort of extremely low level what some folks call aerobic Plyometrics. This is Altis. This is a Dan and Sue stuff. This is rudimentary hops, so something like stiff-legged and you're going to do 20 Hops and land intentionally on your
heel who has can be hard for me with the
heel drops. Yeah, right like again you don't want to do to level of pain you could do a little bit of your toe you could do something, but if you're going to be landing in absorbing
Load on the skis. Yeah for sure. We have to get some sort of activation of tissue tolerance your remember, if we really have a sensitivity issue in your low back with pain. We have to desensitize the somehow the way that we do that is we walk right up to that line of sensitivity go back two steps and we do a little bit of volume there and then ideally try to push that line back up tangible quick example. Let's just say you're having an issue with trap are dead lifts. Okay, great. And let's just say we did a thing where I said, okay, put it on the bar and we're going to work up to
Load until starts to hurt. Let's say that that is 300 pounds for you. Probably have a pretty decent drop our dad left. I assume okay great. So when the pain started hurting at 300 pounds, let's go to 200. Let's do three sets of six go home. Come back the next day. No, no issue next session slowly work our way up to where's that line? Okay seems like I can train it to 80 and I have no pain. Let's now get to five sets of six. Let's get to five sets of six and then some accessory exercises want our stuff no pain no pain no pain.
Now, let's slowly go up to 280 and then we're going to slow the you're going to desensitize that system by doing it. I'm doing the same thing with your landing and compressor. I had to get to that somehow. I don't want exacerbate your pain, but I wanted to do 10 lands. I want to do something. It could be maybe a little bit of a softer ground we could do some other way around but we want to slowly desensitize the tissue that landing and loading is okay. So that's how I would build
Monday. Okay. So few follow-ups on Monday my most important
Question is related to let's just say in this case the three exercises and three to five minutes in between I've benefited in the past from 3 to 5 minutes or more in between exercises. But in the interest of time one might be in Clyde myself included to say well rather than doing say exercise a and doing the three sets of that exercise with five minutes in between. Maybe I could just sequences so that I do exercise a I take like a minute rest exercise be take a minute rest.
Let's see take a minute rest and then go back to a is that something that is acceptable / advisable or do you really want more of a break for your central nervous system or
otherwise in your particular case in this situation what you laid out that super setting is totally fine. Okay, great. No issue there. We're not trying to maximize your strength. Yeah, if we were trying to do that for any number of reasons where we really are trying to peek at what you're really trying to do in this case. I don't even care if you get stronger if we lose some strength over the course of this it's okay or trying to do is
Have health throughout the system. So we need to be strong enough to hold positions while you're on the slopes, right? So we
try to avoid a slope of degradation over the course of fight
count. So if you wanted to do that, no problem. You want a super set them as I would call that. Yeah, but we probably have you do is set the whole circuit up for its part of your kind of warm up. And you do one at your breath for a second you slowly walk over set up do the next one. I don't care that it's three minutes or 2 minutes or less what we want to make sure we're doing is not getting a ton of fatigue. I don't want you if your
Birth rate is 150 breaths per minute. If your heart rate rather if you're sweating a lot, if you're really getting it then hole
like this. Yeah pause so I'm down. I
actually want you leave these sessions feeling like I didn't do anything. But if you can do that superset fashion, no problem. These things should not be 30 minutes. Yeah, really? This is a views member you skied
hard. Oh, yeah. Well, that's part of the reason I'm asking is like I'll probably be pretty fatigued walking in.
So yeah, that's great. Like we're going to get a high quality warm up and we're going to do a couple of exercises at a reasonable quality, but we're also not going to 90 95 percent.
We're getting a good strong contraction probably finish it potentially with one exercise to a pump. This would be let's take one area that needs that is undersized that is under strength that is dysfunctional and we'll do one set so many
options. Yeah,
we probably rotate it is to be honest. So like maybe maybe it's just it's glutes. Hmm. Maybe we put a band on and we just do a set of 30 glue pumps sit. We're out of there right got it.
Maybe something for your shoulder. Yeah, you've had this thing going on maybe something like that going on and maybe it's hand like opposite 30 reps each. I just adjusted this
yesterday for kind of shoulders using rear delt stuff. Totally
feels great, right? Okay, great. Yeah, so something like that maybe bent row on a machine. Like what would any number of things we can do and you do one or so sets of 20 get a nice big pump you feel Jack. That's great any other that's probably what I would do 12 of those one set, maybe two and then we're done.
What else would you like to add and then another critical question, which is one where I do think I tend to lose the plot. I don't think I eat enough actually and I've done so much fasting on my app. I'm not hungry. I have developed the habit of not eating very much and I can see that in my lean body mass right now in terms of just totals Mi. Hmm
as an under muscles are over fat
both. Yep. The over fat is I've just been a piglet over the holidays end. I've been doing less strength training in
In being in a protective mode for the back stuff and I think just not consuming enough protein and other things so talk about Monday. I guess if there any sort of Crux pieces that you'd like to discuss for the rest of the week, which you already kind of laid out top level and then I would love to get your thoughts on tracking nutrition because part of what I've seen is I I'm not going to like way out my chicken breasts on this sure jewelry scale and I practically speaking I'm probably not going to do that. Maybe I should but much like
Can hydration by having a container? Yes set volume and you just multiply it out. Yeah, that's straightforward how you might approach nutrition? Yeah with a
similar. Yeah. Great. This is fun regarding training. We kind of said we're probably just a very quick recap Monday's that red day Wednesday. Is that green day was that means Saturday, which is kind of like the reason I'm doing this is Monday Wednesday. Saturday is generally going to be if we can single session and this is technical work. So this is let's review Monday through Friday.
And to what do we need to work on? You know, this is you and your coach going back and say we really want to work on this we need more reps at this and I'm going to what do you need more volume in and that's Saturday. It is practice it is when we miss this we miss this. We miss this. Here's this drills I'm going to do is not high fatigue is also not nothing. It's not Green Day. You got all Sunday Sunday is offering whatever it doesn't matter what this week you are. This is a point so it is a little bit of work, but it is really getting that last bit of volume. We just need more practice practice takes reps awesome that then leaves us with Tuesday, Thursday and Friday that lifts you could do another left.
Saturday afterwards to real technical stuff and do the same thing. I would do the exact same thing. I did on Monday but switch the exercises so a little bit different. So let's say we decided to do step UPS on Monday switch that out for rear foot elevated split squat if those are great switch that out for some other lower body extension exercise. Whatever same exact concept though. Same thing switch out your upper body movement switch out your rotation movement give you a little bit more variety, make sure we're doing something pulling something pressing some
Dana roading, make sure we're doing something in what we technically call frontal and sagittal plane. So maybe this is a lateral Bunch. So now when we now switching out exercise we're going laterally as way something like that. Same thing with our upper body. Maybe it's a horizontal pull row instead of a vertical pole. I would set that up on Saturday your technical work weirdly quick lift. And then you're out of there done for the day. You want to add in your recovery stuff from Wednesday. Great. If not, go have your fun. Do what you do, you know your weekend Tuesday and then probably Thursday or
To be generally yellow medium days on the slopes may or may not lift. But you're going to do a lot of volume on those days. This is probably your longer duration stuff going to feel fine on Thursday. You came off Wednesday Friday if we want to come back and do one red not a double red, but one that I'm good the hard-hearted ski, probably what I'd say. So we're lifting on that Monday. We're going to lift again. In this case. I know this is kind of confusing but I probably left on Thursday, right? This is split it up a little bit Thursday the yellow orange ski
Hard ski not a lot. We're going to lift going to be kind of hard. So we're stacking hard on hard and then Friday might be one really hard ski, but now we're good because Saturday is pretty much greater than we're definitely going on Sunday. That's how I would sack the whole week up. I don't keep the exact same theme lifting lies.
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