This is the Jackal underground. Podcast number 48 sitting here with Echo Charles.
And was thinking through sort of let's call it the lifespan of the podcast that we do called the Jocko podcast and there was a while we're a little while in the beginning and someone asked me about this the other day. There's a little while in the beginning where we were, considering. I was considering, instead of doing it once a week doing it, like once every two weeks, maybe even once a month.
And we sort of talked about that. We kind of Broach that topic a little bit on the podcast itself. And I think that was me kind of trying to socialize that idea a little bit with the people. Yeah, I was saying hey, this is not a real sustainable workload of the amount of effort that it takes to put into doing the podcast. And by the way, doing this podcast, doing the Jackal podcast and this podcast and
The unraveling podcast and the warrior could buy cast like all these podcasts. They're not really my my primary job. So there's people that have like the primary thing that they do with their life is do a podcast but this isn't
really like other people do podcast other people that do podcasts. Like that's
what they do in their life as they do podcast. That's kind of it. You know, which is cool. This is this is one portion of
What I do. And the saw the workload has not like 01 podcast a week was a lot. I don't know if I can handle it. It was that one podcast a week, plus a bunch of other things I have going on. It didn't seem like it was sustainable. And so I was kind of, I was kind of, you know, socializing the idea with the people of like, hey, you know, where may be thinking. Well, the feedback was not good from the people. They were like, no. Hell. No. The
Person I told about it was was a guy was he was a guy was working with through Echelon front and he was like a big listener to the podcast. I don't know how deep we were we maybe were like 50 deeper, something like this. But when I started to tell him, I was like, Hey, we're thinking about going to once, you know, once every two weeks, maybe once a month, he was like, I think I don't understand good idea. He was, he was saying it as if I was cutting off oxygen to people, so that made me rethink it. Some of the feedback we got
But yeah the work, the workload is tough because there's no, there's no staff. There's no one like helping to prep. There's no one doing any research or anything like that. And so so that's so we just kind of stuck, stuck it stuck to it, you know, and then after a little while after like another, probably 50 podcasts, I said to myself that, this the the
The discipline that was imposed upon me by forcing myself to do. This thing was hugely beneficial. It was making me read more. It was making me write more as making me think through things more. It was making me question myself and what I knew or what, I thought I knew.
So essentially there's a lot of things that I've thought about and put out that I never would have put out if I hadn't have been squeezing on my brain to put it out. There's a lot of books that I wouldn't have read and wouldn't have known anything about if I wouldn't have been saying hey I owe a podcast. So therefore I have to read this book because otherwise maybe I'd be you know, watching Netflix and and, you know eating popcorn in front of the television for four hours book. No, I'm reading a book.
For four hours. What am I doing? On a Sunday? I'm reading a book. What am I doing on a Saturday evening? I'm reading a book. What am I doing? Saturday? I'm reading a book. What am I doing? Monday afternoon? Oh, I'm prepping. So.
The the the benefit that that's given me is been great to put myself in a position where I kind of have to do this stuff. And I think right now we're going to keep pushing now. We, you know, explore some other topics that interest me, but yes, there are other. There are other topics in the world that I'm interested in and that if influence me and that I've learned from, besides just War now War.
Obviously is my primary mode of thinking. Is that weird?
Well a little bit weird. Yeah
for the normal person. If I'm gonna, if I'm going to make a comparison. I'm almost always going to go to war. I'm always almost always going to think about some kind of War because the comparison is like, okay, here's an example. We're going to we're going to be able to see the example, very clearly because it could be a life-and-death scenario. This could be a pressure leadership situation. Like war is good for that. And that's why I kind of think that way but I also have
gotten things from things that aren't war from other aspects of life from Jiu-Jitsu is another huge one, but, you know, from surfing from playing music, from listening to music from
Just from other activities and other things and other people in life that I've met along the way. So, you know.
Maybe some people will be like, I don't want to hear about that stuff and that's okay, right? That's what I understand. There's going to be some people that just want to hear about war. Cool. That's cool. There. Might maybe I'll make, maybe we'll make some podcasts that they might not want to listen to, you know, we've had some musicians on here.
We've had photographer on here. We've had, we've had business people, what we've said, we've had some other people on the podcast but
It's okay, cuz I think if I'm starting to do something that I'm not or if I'm chasing something that I'm interested in, then I'm happy about it and I pursue it and I would look I'm going to learn more and if I learn something, here's the cool thing. Just like a book. If I pick up a book to do the podcast on and I get 20 pages into the book and I'm like, this is not going to get me anywhere. It's not going to, I have nothing to pass on to anybody from this, then I'm not doing it. Well, if I decide to think about it doing a topic and I decided, hey, you know,
Maybe this isn't like there's nothing to learn here. There's no broad lessons for speed for the people. I'm not putting it out. So
I think we just keep driving. It. We will keep driving down this road. We don't know what's up ahead. I'd legitimately don't know what's up ahead. As far as topics as far as
Like subject matter as far as human beings that we bring on, or that? Come on. I don't know. I don't know where it ends up because I'm not. I'm not sure where the road goes, but it has been been a long strange trip this far. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like the good. And this is me speaking from an audience, member perspective, chili fan, where, you know, there's a lot of interesting books and you know, whether there be a
But war or not, there's a lot of interesting people whether they be military people present past or not. But I think the, what I'd always really enjoy or learn from both is kind of your take on all of it. Where, you know, you know, colder than hell right. Cool. Good book, you know, I don't know that, I would read that book, just on my own ass if you didn't exist. I don't know, but hearing it from
Um you yes, of course. Yes made it like oh that's interesting and you know heavy and like all this stuff. But what really what I really was a fan of was your take on it and the fact that I could or someone. I mean in this case, it's me where I could ask questions to clarify our what do you think about this element of that or how does this apply to you or me or whatever? Like I feel like that part really has the value of it, which kind of goes in line with kind of what you're saying, but
Even more than rewind back to you talking about doing it once a week. It kind of put in my head where, you know how, you know, in the beginning, when we first started a lot of people, a lot of people without and I really mean it. A lot of people would ask me. Hey, like what how do I start a podcast so much where I put a page on the website saying, this is how you start a podcast. Here's all the equipment or whatever. So I didn't have to, you know, answer the questions all the time. So let me ask you, like, how hard is it to do this podcast?
As far as hardness goes, I know you know, this is a very specific podcast where you got to read and do all this stuff but like just consider that maybe it wasn't that much work for you. But just I don't know, maybe arbitrarily just sort of think a generally speaking. How hard is it to do a podcast doing it versus like seen it from the outside? What you'd
expect. It's probably a lot harder than it seems like it's going to be. Yeah, and and and I think the weird thing is, especially now that the, that there's so many different podcasts and
There's it. Look there's millions of podcasts and maybe
Maybe 10% of them are
good, you know, right? Which what that means is, let's say there's a million. I think there's more like, more than among the. Let's just say, there's a million and ten percent of them are good. That means there's 100,000 good podcast listen to and you're not even to find them. And so, if you're jumping into the podcasts in right now, it's gonna be really difficult to get people to start listening to your podcast because they've already got 999,000 other podcasts or sorry. They've got
Nine thousand other podcast in there, download that they're going to listen to before you get in the game. So, I think now it's really hard because there's very little return on investment for having a podcast because the chances of people listening to a relatively small. Now, if you're doing your podcast because you want to do it and because you enjoy talking to people and you're doing it for yourself. Cool, I think that's awesome. And I think that's a great way to
to go about it. That's that is kind of how we went about it. We happen to get into the game when it was easier to get into the game and we got freaking great support from Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan, you know, giving us some given us some props out of the gate which kind of brought us up to speed real quick, very lucky for that. But
And then we just kind of stayed there because it wasn't really any other podcast. That was like what we're doing. So yes, I think it's harder than it than it seems. I'd say it's like, you know, oh I'm going to be a stand-up comedian. Seems really easy. Not real easy. I'm going to be
a what else? What else looks easy, but it isn't so easy news.
Anchor. I'm gonna be a news anchor and I could do that. Yeah, you just freaky.
Read something. Yeah, say something about the weather, or
some about the weather. Yeah, I think even actor. Yeah, acting is because people think, but when you see someone that sucks at acting and occasionally, you know, someone that's some kind of star athlete will get put in a movie, Sometimes they pull it off sure. But sometimes they don't. Yeah. And you owe acting is harder than it looks. That's a sad statement, but it's true. Yeah, so I think
Maybe podcasting is like that. I think, I think Rogan definitely makes a lot of people think because he's one of those people that, you know, when you watch a good Surfer you like to I think I could you know, I think I could do
that because that person's make it look
so easy and Logan, makes it look real easy because he's just kind of cruising through these conversations. Yeah, and then you go. Oh you get into a conversation with someone and it's not going somewhere. Joe Rogan is a black belt at
Need a
place to pick it up and maneuver it and listen and and push back but not too hard. And and give resistance enough that it makes the person work which gives more information like he's just a pro and it seemed Kazi. He's so good at it that it seems kind of like, it might be pretty easy.
Yeah, so, you know,
the hey, I'm just going to kind of do a Joe Rogan. Yeah. This is a
real. It's a real Ambush waiting,
happy you do. I'll tell you right here
man. That is so so true because
Like, especially if you've been following him from the beginning, where, you know, when they started their on this, like the most rudimentary live streaming website. Got something Justin TV, they're sort of Justin.tv or something like this. Where him in the sky, red band, Ryan there would, like, in any Bravo, would be on there something, and they're just talking, and they're, like, you listen to them. Like, why am I listening to us? But even though it is kind of fun to listen to his just guys, talking trash and having fun making jokes and stuff. So, even that then in, like, even that
He had skill in that which is literally unseen, like, even hit making like dumb jokes on the flyer, whatever. They're kind of funny. He's a comedian, so he knows how to do that. So, and as he evolve just and it seemed really natural to where he just got more and more into the conversational kind of part of it. But at the same time, it wasn't like this prepared performance. Like you might see on TV or something like this and you know, some people they can do a performance on a play or something like this. And you were like, oh he nailed that. I don't think I could do that or a singer or something.
But a conversationalist man, it's kind of like the better. They are the less you see on the craft, you know and into most of us were like, oh man, that'd be the best job ever. All I got to do is nothing basic basically just be me and talk to these freaking cool people whatever. So yeah. I like men so when we started
When you would talk, you're like kind of the same way where you're just literally the exact same person off the mic as you are on the mic, but when you get on the mic as a normal person, it's like oh, yeah, you're on the mic now on. It's way different. Just like how you said the actors like, you know, I can act in once all the cameras are on and everyone's watching you and the microphones in your face and you're like, like, bright. You don't know what to do. It's like,
yeah, at a salon front, when we're making like videos and that's on front.
For training from what now word and everyone's joke is like is everyone knows what they're gonna say. And then the camera hits record and everyone's goes into brain lock and it takes nine takes to get there. 45 second
video. It's too bad. That's real, you know, so that's like a skill. It's one of those unseen skills, you know, and it's really, really critical. So, so that's what I noticed. And then here's what I really noticed it when we started and then a lot of people that we know, they
Come to me and ask me. Hey, I want to start a podcast and all this stuff and I'm thinking to myself. Oh, yeah, I know exactly know how you feel freaking like, when I heard Joe Rogan freaking, I wanted start by let like my dream career would be that right there. I just sit in my own house. Oh my basement or someplace that I made up and talk to my friends and talk trash can just get paid for that. This is the best. We're gonna do have your dream job in a way. It's even better because there's no pressure. I can just let you talk to you. That's why?
Understood but they'd be like hey, what advice do you have for whatever and that's what I would say. Oh and here's another phenomenon that I would see where some people some people, they embrace the cameras and all that and then they act like a different person. It's like all of a sudden they're this like dramatic expert now. Yeah. Okay, that's like bro, so he doesn't sound right. So that and then and then the the other main thing as far as advice that I would give and I still would will give is like you got to keep doing it.
Well, okay. I'm going to, I'm going to say this because a lot of the people along the way that we saw that would like start a podcast and then would stop. Yes. And it's probably good that they stopped. Look, there's a lot of people that started the podcast along the way
and like they would tag us. Hey just did our first episode or whatever.
Tell us what you think or something like this. And I'm talking. This is like five years ago. This is and I listen to him.
Like, you know, hey, sounds good. Whatever. I'm not liking, you know, who the person is, what I'm going to say. Like, hey, you know, what I'd recommend is way to format, you know, I wasn't going to do this like you because are also, I never think that I'm going to be right about stuff. I don't think that I don't even think I don't think and didn't think I was right about the our podcast like, hey, I think this is going to be the big, you know, there's going to be other. People are gonna really want to listen about the freaking Holocaust in the holodomor and, and prisoner of war camp. So it's going to be great and lovely people won't. Like I did.
Don't have that thing. I thought some people might like to listen to it. So I wasn't going to tell someone that had done a podcast like well, I don't think people are going to want to listen to because I'm not normal and I don't know. I don't know what normal people are going to want to listen to. So, I think what you're saying is you're not going to get traction. Very seldom, are you to get traction quickly but also,
There's a chance you're just not going to get traction. There's a chance that whatever you're doing maybe is night. It doesn't appeal to people. Yeah, and and what really sucks about that is there's a chance that you whoever you are don't appeal to people. When you're in that mode, whatever mode you're projecting, because you're right. Like, like I said, at a salon Franck, like will when we hit record for some one minute video. Like, I just say what I would normally say and I'm done. There you go. It was like, oh, I did it once. Hey, you want
Decentralized scramble all say it and then cool, press stop and walk away. Some other members that team they like get in the mode of like, okay. I need to say something, you know, profound or or I need to put a little zing on it or whatever and then they're not being themselves. Then it's hard to do. It's hard to pretend to be someone else and
not to mention that you know how you
jammed up
and we laugh at you know, you said,
In stunt driving or whatever you guys learned. Yeah, where you got to focus on like if you're trying to shoot a gap or or make it through a gap. You got to focus on the Gap. Don't try to avoid the cars or this. I don't look at the
car. You might hit. Yeah, so when
you're on the count on camera or something, if you start trying to not mess up you're going to be missing all the time man, but I don't know. Yeah, it's a doubt. That's a that's an interesting thing where it's like, it's way harder than it looks in.
It's almost like you won't even believe it until you do it. It's like well, of course it is like acting that's such a good example, because I did some acting before. So if you sag number and I thought I'm not a,
is the main acting that you did the movie that you
made. Yeah, you know, a bunch of. Did you do
more than that? That I don't know
about the all acting it done, you know about, okay.
So this is active that you did for your own, for your own work
for a movie. I did. Yeah, that. Yeah, my own movie. And then just
Like even little videos yet face it freaking acting in that thing lower level than you. I understand. Yeah, but nonetheless, that's the point is doesn't matter when the camera is wrong and everyone's looking at you two and then you got to memorize lines. You got to project a certain emotion, whatever, you know, until you jump in there. But like, yeah, it's almost impossible to understand that how much harder it is than
it looks. I would not want.
Have to memorize so many lines like every week for if you're on a TV show, like when I was, when I was on billions and those guys had all these lines. I had to memorize like four lines. Probably they were lines that I already used in my regular life was like so they were like, you know, just basic stuff. Yeah that I already said so it wasn't like some weird character. I was playing I'm just being me. Yeah, and I and even that I was kind of like oh because I showed up. I didn't know you actually had to memorize, I thought.
Thought acting, I thought the whole thing was kind of more that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen,
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